What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[Theloras]

Taunt was a bad example. Paladins have no equivalent of sunder armor, which makes them damn unsuitable for MT'ing any serious boss. Offtanking? Maybe. But same paladin would be much more beneficial to raid by speccing holy and spamming heals/blessings, and that's what 90% of you pally boys are going to do in raid content.

Also, @Theloras, I fail to see how are Taunt and spell hit relevant to the topic. Sure, it's a thing, and it can fuck you over bad at 4HM because of how unforgiving the fight is. But then again, it's the fight you need 8 actually geared tanks for. So it is kinda crazy overall.

You're the one who brought up Taunt as your prime example - I was merely refuting your argument and quite well actually.

I merely informed you how unreliable Taunt is for Warriors because it's an ability based on SPELL HIT which no Warrior would ever stack, other than 4 piece Dreadnaught or Nat Pagle's Trinket.

Likewise, other than a specific boss encounter that requires a Tank swap having to use Taunt, if a Warrior otherwise needs to use it in an encounter, then it's a failure on either the Warrior's fault for not putting up enough agro or the fault of a DPS for not paying attention to KTM.

Paladins out agro Warriors in Single Target fights by a significant margin and absolutely blow warriors threat out of the water in any AoE fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXJNCdIJ6dI
- Prot Warrior with Force Reactive Disk doing LOL AoE dmg and threat with the DPS having to wait almost 20 seconds before doing their dmg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy1uk0k ... h_response
- another Prot Warrior with Force Reactive Disk doing LOL AoE dmg and threat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rFEMKiRxKw
- Paladin with Tier 2 and 2.5 gear with Force Reactive Disk = meni dead mobs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPeUCinVckA
- here is Killerduki himself rounding up a large number of mobs with Retribution Aura while wearing full BiS Paladin tanking gear and then mowing them down with max Rank Consecration = meni meni meni dead mobs and he's not even using Force reactive Disk lol

TLDR - Warriors having a Taunt is nothing more than a crutch that people use against Paladins wanting to spec anything other than Holy - and as for Sunder Armor, a Druid can put up Faerie Fire just as easily.

[Ghostly]

...

Every single one of your videos refers to the AoE tanking, which is the thing paladin excels at - the only thing, compared to a warrior tank. Tanking and class roles have been already theorycrafted a decade ago, and both paladin and druid in vanilla are universally accepted as handicapped tanks in one way or another, I really see no reason to argue about such old truths.

[Theloras]

...

Every single one of your videos refers to the AoE tanking, which is the thing paladin excels at - the only thing, compared to a warrior tank. Tanking and class roles have been already theorycrafted a decade ago, and both paladin and druid in vanilla are universally accepted as handicapped tanks in one way or another, I really see no reason to argue about such old truths.

You're being asinine and small minded bro - both Duki and I have tanked raid bosses and every age gauntlet in the game - so has my boy Cysthen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLxq3DHt4

If I wanted things to be easy and hand wrapped for me I would go play retail...

[Undertanker]

Taunt arguement -shut down.
Sunder arguement -shut down.

So now we will use, no reasoning at all to win.

Pally > 3 warriors aoe. But you state, "would be better off just healing" that is back asswards.

Pally > warrior was secondary threat for conflag/wing buffet bosses due to not needing to take damage for high tps - I see you chose to ignore this on many accounts.

On fights where neither of the above are needed, I would expect the pally to rock healing gear and dispell / spot heal.

I am not fond of your "people were narrow minded 10 years ago, lets keep doing what they were doing" approach to machanics and reasons.

[Undertanker]

Btw I am a MT warrior, with a deflection set such as essence of the pure flame, yet I know when another class can fill a role better than even I can.

[Theloras]

Taunt arguement -shut down.
Sunder arguement -shut down.

So now we will use, no reasoning at all to win.

Pally > 3 warriors aoe. But you state, "would be better off just healing" that is back asswards.

Pally > warrior was secondary threat for conflag/wing buffet bosses due to not needing to take damage for high tps - I see you chose to ignore this on many accounts.

On fights where neither of the above are needed, I would expect the pally to rock healing gear and dispell / spot heal.

I am not fond of your "people were narrow minded 10 years ago, lets keep doing what they were doing" approach to machanics and reasons.

^^^ This guy gets it ^^^

A good Paladin has multiple sets or armour/weapons and changes in order to fill what is needed for each encounter.

Did I DPS or tank every fight/encounter?

No, of course not because that wasn't my bag - I was hybrid Ret DPS spec at the time and filled in when/where I was needed.

Killerduki and Cysthen were pure/dedicated Prot specs and therefore MTed more than I ever did, but they also had other sets of armour if tanking wasn't needed for a particular encounter (i.e. Intrusctor Razuvious or others)

[Ghostly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLxq3DHt4

20-mans, MC, BWL trash. Staggering. That being said, if you want more challenge in raids by deliberately choosing the inferior class for the job, why not fill the raid with SPriests, feral druids and ret pallys while you're at it? Serious endgame PvE is, and has always been about min-maxing, if you or Undertanker geniunely believe that paladins make superior tanks - go ahead, make a pally tank guild, revolutionize the PvE scene in this 11 years old game! Because if you want to prove all those warrior tank-only guilds wrong, that's what you'll have to do, instead of making empty assumptions and posting videos of easy content being cleared. I am done here.

[Theloras]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLxq3DHt4

20-mans, MC, BWL trash. Staggering. That being said, if you want more challenge in raids by deliberately choosing the inferior class for the job, why not fill the raid with SPriests, feral druids and ret pallys while you're at it? Serious endgame PvE is, and has always been about min-maxing, if you or Undertanker geniunely believe that paladins make superior tanks - go ahead, make a pally tank guild, revolutionize the PvE scene in this 11 years old game! Because if you want to prove all those warrior tank-only guilds wrong, that's what you'll have to do, instead of making empty assumptions and posting videos of easy content being cleared. I am done here.

Dude, you're playing on the wrong server if you want to do the whole "Serious endgame PvE is, and has always been about min-maxing."

You should go and play on Peenix as you will fit right in with all of the Elitist Try Hard F@gs over there...

PS Good thing you're done here because you've offered no evidence to back up your arguments whatsoever.

PPS Both Cysthen and Killerduki MTed all of MC, BWL, AQ20/40 and into Naxx

[smilkovpetko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLxq3DHt4

20-mans, MC, BWL trash. Staggering. That being said, if you want more challenge in raids by deliberately choosing the inferior class for the job, why not fill the raid with SPriests, feral druids and ret pallys while you're at it? Serious endgame PvE is, and has always been about min-maxing, if you or Undertanker geniunely believe that paladins make superior tanks - go ahead, make a pally tank guild, revolutionize the PvE scene in this 11 years old game! Because if you want to prove all those warrior tank-only guilds wrong, that's what you'll have to do, instead of making empty assumptions and posting videos of easy content being cleared. I am done here.

Greetings Ghostly i see you don't get it easy with explaining.
Warrior offtank can even do sunders while Paladin is doing the Maintanking job.

Tell me any fight that Paladin can't tank. i will open your eyes with how it work for Paladin.

Cheers and yes Paladin Tanks can MT everything that exist in Vanilla.

Time to show up arguments.

I will bring you all the evidences you want as i am full with them like a gun filled with bullets.

[Syphonize]

I am not fond of your "people were narrow minded 10 years ago, lets keep doing what they were doing" approach to machanics and reasons.

Well said. Holy shit have people forgotten how to have fun that you have to mix-max to the nth degree for something as simple as fucking Molten Core?

Try stuff out, experiment, and you'll probably find different ways to do things. People will unfortunately always be narrow minded, however. It's a shame.

I have seen Paladins successfully tank a number of encounters. I've seen Bears tank almost every encounter.

Cool videos, Theloras. I wish it was possible to see it in action! I'd love to be in a raid with a Paladin MT. I wish it was easier to find. There has to be a guild for all us free spirits, y'know?