What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[Aethelwulf]

Get back here Theloras. We're not done laughing at you. You have a produced a fine comedy of errors, so do be so good as to attend to your own production.

First:

I won't even bother to reply to the rest of your diatribe because the statement above shows how clueless you are...

I'm sure this decision of yours not to bother replying to the rest has nothing to do with the fact that you actually have no answers and are just taking trying to make a cheap exit.

My apologies for assuming you had a competent UI mod that would actually present the total spell damage bonus on its spell damage line. You are right. I should have known better.

the line doesn't exist in Vanilla WoW genius - Caster Stats is the standard Add-on to use...

...

Are you related to smilkovpetko, perchance?

Never mind you are ignoring the entire point of this thread in the first place.

Mmm, yes. This wasn't a concern before but now that the topic is drifting to you making an ass out of yourself, you would hastily like us to return to the original subject. Here's the short end of this tangent.
A) Proof that items such as yours did not scale in vanilla
B) Absolutely zero evidence from anyone during vanilla that it did scale.
C) You and smilkovpetko insist that hearsay from after vanilla trumps evidence from vanilla.
D) You get laughed at.
E) Now you claim that we are getting off topic.

As far as the topic is concerned, here is what we have discovered throughout this farce: Warriors are indeed the best maintanks. Paladins are poor tanks depending on "off-tanks," AoE trash mob encounters, and flawed spell damage coefficients to maintain threat with Seal of Righteousness at the very least. And Paladins are still going to have a hard time gearing all that tank loot.

[Theloras]

Get back here Theloras. We're not done laughing at you.

First:

I won't even bother to reply to the rest of your diatribe because the statement above shows how clueless you are...

I'm sure this decision of yours not to bother replying to the rest has nothing to do with the fact that you actually have no answers and are just taking trying to make a cheap exit.

My apologies for assuming you had a competent UI mod that would actually present the total spell damage bonus on its spell damage line. You are right. I should have known better.

the line doesn't exist in Vanilla WoW genius - Caster Stats is the standard Add-on to use...

...

Are you related to smilkovpetko, perchance?

Never mind you are ignoring the entire point of this thread in the first place.

Very good job of being evasive, Theloras. It isn't transparent in the slightest. Here is the short end of it:
A) Proof that items such as yours did not scale in vanilla
B) Absolutely zero evidence from anyone during vanilla that it scaled.
C) Insist that hearsay from after vanilla trumps evidence from vanilla.
D) Get laughed at.
E) Claim that we are getting off topic.

You are the one who brought up the Fire dmg scaling items in this thread - not me - let that sink in for a minute and then go to the bathroom and look at yourself in the mirror before coming back into this thread.

Then reflect on the fact that I wrote Blizzard and asked them directly for an answer as to whether the items scaled or not - to which the GM replied and said yes.

All of the evidence is listed both for an against spell dmg scaling in the github thread (including Pulse Dagger and Arcane Hunters) which I linked for people to review. But all of this is off topic because at the end of the day I agreed with the Peenix Devs that the scaling should have been removed as Fire Rogues (with the help of the online shop there) were able to 1shot T3 Warriors.

Again, you were the one who brought up this entirely off-topic issue here - not me - I was replying to and destroying your accusation that I had somehow cheated or abused bugs to get my SoR/Consecration dmg up.

You're the one who made an ass out of yourself by not factoring in all of my +spell dmg and +% dmg buffs.

All of which you conveniently forgot/ignored and decided to focus on this non issue of fire dmg scaling items instead.

- edit -

"It seems your tank Paladin completely depends on bugged spell damage coefficients to do inappropriate amounts of damage and thus obtain threat."

I wonder who said that earlier in this thread and therefore accused me of abusing game mechanics/bugs.

Hmmm...who on earth could it have been?!?

[smilkovpetko]

by Aethelwulf » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:20 pm

A) Proof that items such as yours did not scale in vanilla
B) Absolutely zero evidence from anyone during vanilla that it did scale.
C) You and smilkovpetko insist that hearsay from after vanilla trumps evidence from vanilla.
D) Get laughed at.
E) Claim that we are getting off topic.

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/ass ... 09971e.jpg

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=569D5018

by Awkwardlol » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:53 pm

No, you don't have any evidence. You claim this quote from a Blizzard employee who works a GameMaster and perhaps he never even played Vanilla, or maybe he did, who will ever know?

/Slaptrollface

[Aethelwulf]

Okay Theloras,

I only brought up the fire dmg scaling items to buttress my point that Feenix messes up spell dmg coefficients when I was discussing the excessive amount of SoR damage you were obtaining. You then proceeded to derail and argue that you are an expert on the fire weapons and were swiftly proven wrong. The Blizzard GM comment is worth almost nothing because by his own admission his recollection could be faulty and he could not procure any official data on the subject. You could have just as well asked any random WoW player whether they scaled back then and taken their word as gospel for all the credibility it'd carry. It is pure hearsay. Lets be clear on this matter: The items could very well have scaled at the beginning of the Burning Crusade (when they overhauled spell damage coefficients across the board), but we have clear evidence of at least one of these items not scaling in vanilla. Given that Fiery Retributer and Fiery Plate Gauntlets would likely have gone to Paladins during vanilla, I find the lack of any evidence whatsoever from vanilla that they scaled as you insist to be telling. If they were this powerful, one would expect word to spread.

As for the UI, I understand your reading comprehension is tragically deficient, but I do believe I mentioned that I was under the assumption that your UI mod actually calculated the total spell damage bonus where it lists spell damage. Blaming me for your own bad UI is hilarious, but it doesn't make you a smart man. At any rate, unless you had over 1500 spell damage, I'd gather that your spell damage coefficient was still beyond what it ought to have been.

[Ana]

Shit, this escalated quickly.

Anyway could someone do the actual theorycrafting behind paladin single target TPS capabilities (including mana management and such)? "Someone" obviously not being Theloras or that other guy, those two are evidently incapable of coherent theorycrafting. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the math done by someone with a basic grasp on reality.

[Theloras]

I only brought up the fire dmg scaling items to buttress my point that Feenix messes up spell dmg components when I was discussing the excessive amount of SoR damage you were obtaining. You then proceeded to argue that you are an expert on such matters and were swiftly proven wrong. The Blizzard GM comment is worth nothing because by his own admission his recollection could be faulty and he could not procure any official data on the subject. You could have just as well asked any random WoW player whether they scaled back then and taken their word as gospel for all the credibility it'd carry.

And the UI, I understand your reading comprehension is tragically deficient, but I do believe I mentioned that I was under the assumption that your UI mod actually calculated the total spell damage bonus when it lists spell damage. Blaming me for your own bad UI is hilarious, but it doesn't make you a smart man. At any rate, unless you had over 1500 spell damage, I'd gather that your spell damage coefficient was still beyond what it ought to have been.

Likewise, the Storm Gauntlet video has to be taken with a grain of salt depending on when it was made/posted. The spell dmg scaling could have changed over the duration of Vanilla - you have to look at the big/overall picture of evidence which is why I posted Wowhead.com comments as well as going to Blizzard and asking them directly.

I went on to further state that in the end it was all a moot point given the fact that the Peenix Devs made an executive decision to remove the scaling regardless due to Fire Rogues being too powerful (which I agreed with in the best interest of the server).

You say the Blizzard GM response means nothing on its own and I say the Storm Gauntlets video means nothing on its own. You have to look at the totality of all of the evidence and based on all of that, form an opinion. But in the end, it doesn't even matter since the devs took it away regardless.

TLDR - we can agree to disagree about the evidence but at least I went out of my way to find an answer from the highest authority possible in this case, Blizzard.

As far as how much spell dmg I had, if you will notice, I actually laid out which buffs I had in my original response back to you - you not being aware of what Caster Stats can and can't do is your problem not mine since it's the default Add-on to use to list in the character page...

[Theloras]

Shit, this escalated quickly.

Anyway could someone do the actual theorycrafting behind paladin single target TPS capabilities (including mana management and such)? "Someone" obviously not being Theloras or that other guy, those two are evidently incapable of coherent theorycrafting. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the math done by someone with a basic grasp on reality.

You mean people who have never played a Paladin before...like ever and know nothing about the class?

If your answer is yes, then be my guest...

[Ana]

Well, smilkovwhatever thinks warriors are rage starved in raids (he mentioned something along the lines of better gear = less rage a few pages back). I probably can't hope for any kind of competence on any side here. I would like to see an honest attempt, though, not just vomiting industrial amounts of bullshit and kindergarden-level rhetorics.

Hey, I can even make it easy for you. Just list the exact rotation you would use as MT from pull till boss death. Mention how much threat each ability gives, mention how much mana it costs. I don't into paladin, I require solid data, not idiotic handwaving.

[Theloras]

Well, smilkovwhatever thinks warriors are rage starved in raids (he mentioned something along the lines of better gear = less rage a few pages back). I probably can't hope for any kind of competence on any side here. I would like to see an honest attempt, though, not just vomiting industrial amounts of bullshit and kindergarden-level rhetorics.

Hey, I can even make it easy for you. Just list the exact rotation you would use as MT from pull till boss death. Mention how much threat each ability gives, mention how much mana it costs. I don't into paladin, I require solid data, not idiotic handwaving.

Here are some of my highlights that you can review along with a video of Duki's at the bottom of the post:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=18940&start=180#p152196

- edit -

I never did much main tanking on my Paladin - I was Deep Retribution for PvE or Reck Spec for PvP - the two main Prot Paladins on Peenix were Killerduki and Cysthen - Duki didn't make many videos MTing but Cysthen did and you can check them out below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCLxq3DHt4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPI89H5Va6A

[Ana]

Nice highlights. Now actual data, please.