What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[Theloras]

so you're a GM from Peenix - how lovely - say hi to Athairne for me - or maybe you are Athairne

if so, go fcuk yourself

Neither. Regardless, you are simply being rude for no apparent reason now. Could you calm down and just answer the question regarding the Holy Vulnerability?

What is it exactly you require for you to admit that you are wrong regarding this, I'm just curious, because you said you could admit it when you're wrong, but currently you seem to simply be saying we're wrong just to spite everyone.

Edit1: You could always ask you-know-who if i am right or not. I know you talk to him now and then, if you don't believe me regarding the Holy Resistances is set in the Database and the Holy Vulnerability not existing ever in the Chromaggus script.

check your pm

[Aethelwulf]

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said I was wrong - there are no patch notes to refer to and we have no confirmation if that video came from a retail server or a private server or if the spell dmg scaling fluctuated from scaling to not scaling or vice versa.

In the grand scheme of things, both sides of the argument had merit and in the end the Peenix Devs removed scaling only because of Fire Rogues - that's it.

What a load of bullshit. You have no confirmation that there was spell damage scaling during vanilla in the first place. Your side of the argument has no merit since it is running off of pure hearsay from years later to infer that this was the case during vanilla and not, for instance, early Burning Crusade. Considering how extremely powerful these weapons would be and how many of these items would have gone to Shamans and Paladins who both gear spell damage and melee, it would have been noticed and popularized very swiftly. And yet no such thing occurred. No evidence from vanilla whatsoever exists that you are correct and you are attempting to argue you are correct armed with nothing but hearsay, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

The argument that the video comes from a private server also strikes me as unlikely since private servers didn't really catch on until after TBC came out and if you are drawing attention to the grounding totem behavior displayed, a lot of procs in WoW do operate as spells and thus are eligible for grounding totem.

[smilkovpetko]

Theoloras it is funny that his trolls have decide to set "their" brainwashing toward our statements
No matter or regardless of the mistakes they will always search for tiny hole to burn their so "Medallion World Champion" arguments that we are Liers , that we Lie everyone on forum about Paladins and that we are not viable etc and all we have said is god damn illusion .

Indeed they decide to choose us two who has the highest knowledge about Paladins to set their destructive Propaganda.

Why they don't do the same toward other Forum Trolls who are spreading False and Mistaken Informations?!. Because these are doing the exact same job as this Two Papparazi that decide to nagging on "informational thread" about Protection Paladin which was requested.

Example :

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p154577

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p154559

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p145865

They don't argue with the real trolls who are Spreading False informations.... at all .
now what we got here is that they decide to debate with us about some Privacy Server which it was made clear that things was "modified" .

So we have double standards around us living like Paladins Helpers :

From one side we have - Forum trolls who spread false informations about Paladins
From another side we have - Forum trolls who are searching for mouse hole within mistakes or little spark to burn our arguments against us
From another side we have theory/math masters which are - Forum trolls who have 0 knowledge about Paladins and they calculate based on assumptions.

Last thing is those who want to know or learn about Paladins Prot/Retri.
They get into confusion by all this Forums trolls in combination that are here to Build up "Flame War" instead constructive and open debate about Paladins.

[Aethelwulf]

smilkovpetko, for the longest time you have proven yourself incapable of articulating any proper argument in favor of Paladins tanking. Your response to the vast majority of arguments was nothing but LOLing, open scorn, smugness self-righteousness, calling everyone who disagreed with you trolls, deflections, demanding people prove a negative, and circlejerking it with Theloras and Undertanker.

When you finally delivered on threat calculations it was swiftly clear that Paladins dramatically underperform compared to warriors in threat meters in addition to their failures in damage mitigation ranging from uncrushability to lack of "oh shit" buttons to the need to pop Mana Potions over Greater Stoneshield Potions. Everything came out showing that Paladins are inferior to Warriors in every aspect save AoE threat generation, the one place where a Paladin tank can shine. And now that we are sticking you to these flaws, you are crying that you do not have a constructive and open debate? Are you that forgetful of your own various inanities, ramblings, deflections, and bad faith accusations? Are you that incapable of self-awareness?

Somewhere along the line, smilkovpetko, your parents failed in raising you. They probably told you that you are smart and special and better than the other kids and everyone who made you feel bad is just bullying and that you shouldn't listen to them and you just believed it. And you became too arrogant and too deluded to accept your own failures. I guess to you everything became the fault of these trolling nitwits around you, and never your own. But the truth is, smilkovpetko, you're the nitwit. You placed your pride above reason without realizing this is the stuff of arrogance and folly, and you vindicated yourself with nonsense, self-righteousness, and accolades of whoever would praise you. Who knows, maybe you do have a talent for analysis and reasoning, somewhere, but if so, you buried it far underneath your own fool pride and use it so sparingly you might as well not have it at all.

[Theloras]

You have no confirmation that there was spell damage scaling during vanilla in the first place. Your side of the argument has no merit since it is running off of pure hearsay from years later to infer that this was the case during vanilla and not, for instance, early Burning Crusade.

Which is why I submitted a GM ticket on Battle.net and asked Blizzard directly...

The argument that the video comes from a private server also strikes me as unlikely since private servers didn't really catch on until after TBC came out and if you are drawing attention to the grounding totem behavior displayed, a lot of procs in WoW do operate as spells and thus are eligible for grounding totem.

These items are entirely unique in all of WoW - never again did Blizzard attempt to introduce similar items which had a guaranteed +Fire/Nature spell effect on every hit. This type of effect is different from Thunderfury for example in that for the Thunderfury +Nature dmg bonus, that effect is rolled into the white dmg unlike the +Fire/Nature dmg which are coded as separate instant cast spells on every white hit that lands.

As far as the Grounding Totem video goes, can you confirm when it was actually recorded (RECORDED, as in not uploaded to YouTube). Similarly, can you confirm on what server it was recorded as well? Was it on a live retail Vanilla server, a retail PTR server, a live private server or a private PTR server?

While both sides of the argument had merit, no one piece of evidence was the coup de grace because there are no official patch notes to refer to, nor are there player comments from the Vanilla period on Wowhead or Allakhazam to refer to either.

Never mind the fact that in the end, the Peenix Devs removed the scaling for one simple reason: Fire Rogues were becoming too detrimental to the server as a whole.

I even went on to write at the bottom of the github page:

the reason why any of this has become an "issue" here on Feenix is due to the vote/donation shop

obviously back on retail no one could vote twice a day for points or donate actual cash for reputation points/items either - this has come only come to the forefront due to the ease of availability of these items here and on other private servers.

regardless of whether aura stacking is the root cause (for which I plead ignorance and wasn't aware of), the reality is that back on retail vanilla the chances of any player being able to equip 2 let alone 3 of these items was slim to frickin none

at best plate/mail classes could get the gloves crafted by a blacksmith but no one hardly ever ran Edge of Madness in ZG or Kazzak back on my realm (Llane-US) for the sheer reason that the rewards were considered $hite or due to Kazaak being a world spawn boss, not worth the effort to camp the spawn spot if another guild already had the spawn timer down pat week after week.

I personally never killed Kazzak back on retail Vanilla and did Edge of Madness maybe five times total - only to get class specific quest turnins for trinkets.

[Noselacri]

It's fairly rare to see someone get so perfectly destroyed in an internet argument. Normally, when proven so resoundingly wrong as these two paladin fanatics have been, the losing party has the decency to go away and put an end to the embarrassment. Instead they continue to provide fuel for their own pyre.

You two started the discussion hurling unrestrained insults and abuse at everyone who didn't agree that paladins are amazing tanks (and, in another thread, that retribution is the best DPS spec in the game) which set you up for one of the finest rhetorical thrashings that I've ever seen.

However, it's worrying that you just keep at it. It's like an insect smashing into a window until it dies, unable to comprehend why it isn't getting through the transparent barrier. This mindless persistence is indicative of mental health issues, which is why I personally would recommend leaving them alone.

They're the kinds of people who, when cornered like this, will seek different ways to attack those who confront them. They're clearly not mentally stable individuals. This is a dangerous level of stupidity you're dealing with here, and I would not put it past them to try to catch your IP address with one of their links and DDOS you or something to that effect. I'd expect that of someone whose immediate response to any disagreement is savage verbal abuse and constantly declaring themselves the winners of an argument in which they've been proven wrong again and again. It's starting to look like literal insanity.

In short, they obviously have personality disorders that you're triggering, and it might be best to let this thread die out before these deluded, self-glorifying crazies go into full meltdown.

[Theloras]

Inc Nub Question...

Do messages in your "outbox" in the Nostalrius PM system mean that they have been sent but not yet read by the recipient - or are they in there because they are drafts and not sent yet?

[Theloras]

You two started the discussion hurling unrestrained insults and abuse at everyone who didn't agree that paladins are amazing tanks

No, we didn't start the insults - the trolls who spewed lie after lie after lie did.

and, in another thread, that retribution is the best DPS spec in the game

Again, no we didn't - I said that a Ret Paladin with Force Reactive Disk is the best AOE DMG DEALER in the game.

This mindless persistence is indicative of mental health issues, which is why I personally would recommend leaving them alone.

In short, they obviously have personality disorders that you're triggering, and it might be best to let this thread die out before these deluded, self-glorifying crazies go into full meltdown.

Perhaps you should take your own advice my friend.

[Theloras]

When you finally delivered on threat calculations it was swiftly clear that Paladins dramatically underperform compared to warriors in threat meters

In the Threat spreadsheet that Duki laid out, he was using current Nostalrius Pre-Raid gear/itemization - in the comparison video from a Warrior tanking, he had BiS Raid/Tier 2 itemization or at least close to it.

[smilkovpetko]

When you finally delivered on threat calculations it was swiftly clear that Paladins dramatically underperform compared to warriors in threat meters

In the Threat spreadsheet that Duki laid out, he was using current Nostalrius Pre-Raid gear/itemization - in the comparison video from a Warrior tanking, he had BiS Raid/Tier 2 itemization or at least close to it.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20825&start=190#p155043

The problem with that person is he completely ignored this post where it explain each fight how it goes in what sort of scale duration/threats.

The longer Duration = The more TPS by main TPS ability = Melee Swings.

If fight is 360 Seconds = 100 k Threats by Melee Swings (Chromaggus) , if fight is 520 Seconds (Neffarian) = 150 k Threats by Melee Swings. (Excluded by all Attack power Gain or MP5 increased or other abilities used than melee swings) . @Preraid Gear.

thus all the calculations was made by the very minimum ever we get . in which fact it could be 1/3 higher than the explanation.