What are the best classes & specs for each different role?

[smilkovpetko]

Now I know a lot of people openly scoff at this item but when it comes to AoE tanking, it is simply irreplaceable as you can see in the screen shots below from our clear of the BWL Gauntlet:

http://imageshack.com/a/img905/9381/7SfLB1.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img631/6836/O13Wmk.jpg

Damn, that's a TON of deaths. Did they die to your lack of threat?

don't nag my mood , i like your poems . i am not yet lvl 60 here . cheers <3

[Theloras]

You could say that today was a VERY good day for me...

http://imageshack.com/a/img912/6840/ySX1Lv.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img908/1509/weZEGM.jpg

[Rarfoster]

I was very excited to see all the positive posts about how paladin is the misunderstood cousin of the tanking warrior, and then saddened to watch the numbers being crunched and the status quo return to normal, that paladins aren't feasible. I've read pretty much the whole thread, granted I skimmed a lot of the repetitive info as well as the trivial arguing.

My understanding is that though paladins can tank, the issue lies in the lack of a taunt. As for MT in raids, am I correct in understanding the paladins can do it as well, just not on taunt required fights?

The arguments I see is that the warrior is better. Of course they would be. And if the primary argument is "why take a paladin when a warrior is better", isn't that just in the case of a progression guild wanting to min-max the crap out of their raids to ensure smooth progression?

I guess my real question is: Can a paladin succeed at MTing if the raid keeps an open mind, thinking outside the box on what is tested and true? Can a paladin walk in with pre raid gear and do well enough to be a MT in a progressive raid? Or do they need gear from raids first before they can do well enough to be the MT?

Those arguing its possible have clearly done some content as MT to say its possible. So clearly it can be done if that is the case. What's being argued here is "what is better" when that answer doesn't matter if both can do it an succeed. No?

[Larsen]

It's not just the lack of a taunt. There are fights where that's irrelevant as many bosses can't be taunted, or don't require a tank swap. That disadvantage is just one of many.

The real problem is that even if you can overcome all the mana issues and the awkward mechanics and the fight doesn't require taunts etc., the paladin class still has much worse survivability than the other two tank classes. They have no tanking cooldowns, don't get uncrushable, have much worse gear available to them (their tier gear doesn't give tank stats), and unlike druids, paladins compete with warriors for tank gear.

It's tricky to deal with absolutes in WoW. Is it literally completely impossible for a paladin to MT? No, for the same reason that you could go raiding with a healing team of shadow priests and balance druids. It'd be way worse and virtually nobody does it, but it's not something that the game prevents you from attempting, and some of the content is easy enough that it's doable for a paladin once they outgear it. However, a paladin will not be able to do well MTing progression content. They just take too much damage.

At the end of the day, guilds have no reason to bring a paladin tank. They're mildly useful for certain AoE trash packs, but you objectively don't need a paladin for anything in vanilla. Because of all this, it makes no sense for a guild to give tank gear to a paladin. It's 50000% more useful on a warrior, and the places where a paladin tank is useful are so few that it doesn't justify bringing one to the raid, let alone wasting gear on them.

[smilkovpetko]

As for MT in raids, am I correct in understanding the paladins can do it as well, just not on taunt required fights?

All those Taunt fights have abilities to Reset Main Target Aggro .

(Example) : 3 Drakes in BWL that require Taunt .

You can tank 1st as Paladin MT , after 15 Seconds (middle) let the Warrior Taunt off you .
The Warrior adopt your aggro (while your aggro remain) and tank the Drake until the Drake does "wing buffed" . Because Wing Buffed is "average" used at 30 Seconds , this is perfect time for Paladin to have his Stacks Reseted . The Paladin position at "tauntable spot" and then Drake Wing buffed the Warrior (this wipe warrior Aggro) . Paladin is 1st (next on list) then the boss automatic switch to Paladin Tank again for. And each 15 Seconds repeat.

(all the fights that "require" taunt are fights that can be done even without taunt or at least with 1 warrior tank and 1 paladin tank instead having 3-4 warrior tanks) .

[smilkovpetko]

The real problem is that even if you can overcome all the mana issues

No . Mana is never issue at all no matter what sort of fight is. Those that have Mana issue are just simple Noob Tanks.
Even Warrior Tanks can be noob on tanking and this is just false justifying .

the paladin class still has much worse survivability than the other two tank classes.

Not true at all , maybe warrior have some advantage due to T3 gear but Druids are far from Paladins in surviving.

They have no tanking cooldowns,

We do have tanking coldowns and don't talk false. We have Bubble (with macro) to remove Deadly Debuffs that are guarantee dead for Warriors and we also have Lay of Hand to bring us Full HP.

don't get uncrushable

That's why we have higher Block Value to survive all that damage income and reduce it . Where warrior "uncrushable" is eaten in 2 hits where the rest of the hits is just weak weak weak . While Paladin have 4 Hits to Eat and keep the 85% instead Warrior's 45% (when his 2 hits are eaten).

have much worse gear available to them (their tier gear doesn't give tank stats), and unlike druids, paladins compete with warriors for tank gear.

Not true at all , we compete with Tanks only for Neck,Finger,Trinket,Shield . Nothing else.

Everything else Warrior goes for Tier Gear while we go for Offset gear which is quite good as Tier gear.

It's tricky to deal with absolutes in WoW. Is it literally completely impossible for a paladin to MT? No, for the same reason that you could go raiding with a healing team of shadow priests and balance druids. It'd be way worse and virtually nobody does it,

1 Paladin or Paladin MT is speeding up the Run , it allows the Guild to speedup their progression "due to fast clearing stuffs and high dmg output as tank" .

It's not tricky at all , it make things 100% max and easier . (ofc if you don't bring noob pala tank) .

but it's not something that the game prevents you from attempting, and some of the content is easy enough that it's doable for a paladin once they outgear it.

Orly!? ..... How come you outgear Naxx Boss ?! . ...

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 0711_o.jpg

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8017_o.jpg

This are literally hardest WoW Vanilla Bosses for Tanks , which are Impossible for Druids to Tank .

How come i did it easy as Paladin Tank?!....

However, a paladin will not be able to do well MTing progression content. They just take too much damage.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8017_o.jpg

Righto ....

Because We take so much damage. .. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovC3fkojlE

Look how hard it is for us during progression?!?!...

At the end of the day, guilds have no reason to bring a paladin tank.

This is your own opinion which is irrelevant and not true..

Everyone have reason why .. one raid can be done with 4 Tanks in which can have 1 Pala Tank , 1 Druid Tank and 2 Warrior Tanks .. all those Tanks have special ability to make everything much easier and fast than using 4 Warrior Tanks which slows the Progression ..

Because of all this, it makes no sense for a guild to give tank gear to a paladin. It's 50000% more useful on a warrior, and the places where a paladin tank is useful are so few that it doesn't justify bringing one to the raid, let alone wasting gear on them.

Maybe you was "baby cry" person that make no sense anyone to give you gear where it's 50000% more useful on everyone in raid than you. or at least you made any sense by talking shits like this?

[smilkovpetko]

I was very excited to see all the positive posts about how paladin is the misunderstood cousin of the tanking warrior, and then saddened to watch the numbers being crunched and the status quo return to normal, that paladins aren't feasible. I've read pretty much the whole thread, granted I skimmed a lot of the repetitive info as well as the trivial arguing.

My understanding is that though paladins can tank, the issue lies in the lack of a taunt. As for MT in raids, am I correct in understanding the paladins can do it as well, just not on taunt required fights?

The arguments I see is that the warrior is better. Of course they would be. And if the primary argument is "why take a paladin when a warrior is better", isn't that just in the case of a progression guild wanting to min-max the crap out of their raids to ensure smooth progression?

I guess my real question is: Can a paladin succeed at MTing if the raid keeps an open mind, thinking outside the box on what is tested and true? Can a paladin walk in with pre raid gear and do well enough to be a MT in a progressive raid? Or do they need gear from raids first before they can do well enough to be the MT?

Those arguing its possible have clearly done some content as MT to say its possible. So clearly it can be done if that is the case. What's being argued here is "what is better" when that answer doesn't matter if both can do it an succeed. No?

Those arguing its possible have clearly done some content as MT to say its possible. So clearly it can be done if that is the case. What's being argued here is "what is better" when that answer doesn't matter if both can do it an succeed. No?

That's all the point i talk. We can do same as any other Tank.

Sadly we got Preachers where they clearly have no clue what Paladins are capable of and therefore their misinformation and lies become true when they repeat it over 100 times.
This have been plagued from "elitists" which usual follow what "top 10 vanilla raiding guilds" did instead what the whole world did (even using prot pala in retail) .

I was the one Protection Paladin in retail Vanilla that have done every single Boss in Game that exist as MT.
Sadly the knowledge how to record Video or Screenshots in such times was extremely poor and barely anyone was able to do to give any evidence today + most of the websites doesn't work or are removed because they was too old.

[Larsen]

Ignore what smilkovpetko says. He goes around every thread about paladins and claims they're the best class at everything, and no matter how many times people prove him wrong and point out how silly he is, he just won't stop. People have been ridiculing him everywhere he goes and his opinions are in no way based on facts.

If you want honest, believable information about paladins, your best bet is to put him (and Theloras) on ignore. They have a history of spreading intentionally misleading information and using cherrypicked screenshots or invalid information from other private servers to trick people into false beliefs. If one were to believe them, paladins are the best tanks and best DPS in vanilla. They're retards who just ruin every thread about paladins.

[Rarfoster]

So you are saying that you yourself played a paladin, got to 60, got all the available pre raid gear, and was able to progress with your guild as a(the) MT? You can say that with the right support, even a paladin can be a progressive tank? Or do you need to raid as holy first and gather gear before you can MT as a paladin?

[smilkovpetko]

So you are saying that you yourself played a paladin, got to 60, got all the available pre raid gear, and was able to progress with your guild as a(the) MT? You can say that with the right support, even a paladin can be a progressive tank? Or do you need to raid as holy first and gather gear before you can MT as a paladin?

I never been Healer and i rarely play Retribution as Offspec .
So yep i been always Protections , leveled , geared and followed pre raid gear etc so i was able to MT and progress as intended without any problem at all.
In fact the runs followed with 1 Protection Paladin proved that are much faster progressive than using only 4 Warriors in single raid .
(at equal gearwise) Paladin is heavy booster between bosses which is most wasting time .

Ignore Larsen , reading his Comment is just ridiculous based on assumptions and no facts. Beside Larsen never ever played Paladin Protection or tanked anything as that spec.