Info about classes' value

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Re: Info about classes' value

by Ana » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:20 pm

Stumps wrote:If anyone is DPSing the Core Ragers, they are following a flawed strategy. It serves no purpose


It serves the purpose of padding damage meters. It doesn't speed up the kill but neither does it slow it down, really. Not much of a flaw in strategy in the end.

The point here is people make Golemagg raidstats entries into an example of single target boss fight dps data. This is NOT a single target fight. You CAN cheat the meters by dpsing the dogs, and people do it all the fuckin time.
If you want an accurate representation of single target dps capabilities of any class, use Ebonroc fights. They're just about the only encounter in current content where 1) you can't cheat and 2) there are no external RNG factors that influence the fight and make comparisons different entries pointless (say, stuff like getting knocked around on Raggy; you can't compare Raggy fights, it's not objective). You only need to make sure you're taking fights where tanks aren't shit.

On a side note, insulting Theoloras and Killerduki is a dirty habit you'll eventually get into if you ever try having a meaningful discussion with either (especially if you happen to disagree). They have this strange quirk where they're under the impression that following basic rules of argumentation and the need to adhere to logic doesn't quite apply to them.
Last edited by Ana on Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Info about classes' value

by Aslan » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:23 pm

Would be awesome if you could build rage and combo points on the adds to use it on the bos... hmmhmm.. too bad these specific mobs dont allow that?
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Re: Info about classes' value

by Theloras » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:26 pm

Ana is still ignoring me lol
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Re: Info about classes' value

by Ana » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:40 pm

I actually read it, but it's long and I cba to address all points because the resulting discussions will suck anyway :P

2 things I'll pick up:
- 2 judgements on the boss. I suspect the raid lead figured that if the options are either give you guys an extra judgement slot, increasing your dps by 50 or something, or give, say, Gift of Arthas a slot, then the choice is a nobrainer. 16 debuff slots really suck
- WHY is Holystrike not even trying to dps in BWL? Wasn't ret supposed to be good or something? :P Same goes for MC really. Either the current best dps paladin on the server does a whooping 285.7 average dps (can't say it's intimidating), or he only dpses certain fights and dunno, goes afk on others (he's not on healing meters)... for the purpose of having an excuse as to why his meter ranking is shit, perhaps? Somehow I'm not eager to buy that excuse.
Last edited by Ana on Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Info about classes' value

by smilkovpetko » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:47 pm

Ana wrote:
Stumps wrote:If anyone is DPSing the Core Ragers, they are following a flawed strategy. It serves no purpose


It serves the purpose of padding damage meters. It doesn't speed up the kill but neither does it slow it down, really. Not much of a flaw in strategy in the end.

The point here is people make Golemagg raidstats entries into an example of single target boss fight dps data. This is NOT a single target fight. You CAN cheat the meters by dpsing the dogs, and people do it all the fuckin time.
If you want an accurate representation of single target dps capabilities of any class, use Ebonroc fights. They're just about the only encounter in current content where 1) you can't cheat and 2) there are no external RNG factors that influence the fight and make comparisons different entries pointless (say, stuff like getting knocked around on Raggy; you can't compare Raggy fights, it's not objective). You only need to make sure you're taking fights where tanks aren't shit.

On a side note, insulting Theoloras and Killerduki is a dirty habit you'll eventually get into if you ever try having a meaningful discussion with either (especially if you happen to disagree). They have this strange quirk where they're under the impression that following basic rules of argumentation and the need to adhere to logic doesn't quite apply to them.


If you want an accurate representation of single target dps capabilities of any class, use Ebonroc fights.
They're just about the only encounter in current content where 1) you can't cheat and 2) there are no external RNG factors that influence the fight


Speaking of Ebonroc

DPS should stop time to time when Shadowflame will be used toward the Tank because it will wipe his aggro, this can make someone Cheating such as rogue,priest,hunter that can use their abilities to drop down the aggro.
And yes the fight require Onyxia Cloak to prevent mass wiping if someone overaggro when the tank is loosing during the Shadowflame and this can cause 1 shot to the raid (if nobody use ony cloak).

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=21215718
Paladin DPS there
Enjoy.


On a side note, insulting Theoloras and Killerduki is a dirty habit you'll eventually get into if you ever try having a meaningful discussion with either (especially if you happen to disagree).


Like you just said insulting toward someone who disagree and have different point of view/experience/proofs is just narrow minded weakness because you just got no clue regarding the game and you can't admit it.
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Re: Info about classes' value

by Ana » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:50 pm

smilkovpetko wrote:DPS should stop time to time when Shadowflame will be used toward the Tank because it will wipe his aggro


Shadowflame doesn't wipe aggro. Wing buffet takes 25% of aggro.
Also have you heard of taunt?


That link makes much more sense btw
Last edited by Ana on Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Info about classes' value

by smilkovpetko » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:51 pm

Ana wrote:I actually read it, but it's long and I cba to address all points because the resulting discussions will suck anyway :P

2 things I'll pick up:
- 2 judgements on the boss. I suspect the raid lead figured that if the options are either give you guys an extra judgement slot, increasing your dps by 50 or something, or give, say, Arthas' Tears a slot, then the choice is a nobrainer. 16 debuff slots really suck
- WHY is Holystrike not even trying to dps in BWL? Wasn't ret supposed to be good or something? :P Same goes for MC really. Either the current best dps paladin on the server does a whooping 285.7 average dps (can't say it's intimidating), or he only dpses certain fights and dunno, goes afk on others (he's not on healing meters)... for the purpose of having an excuse as to why his meter ranking is shit, perhaps? Somehow I'm not eager to buy that excuse.



- 2 judgements on the boss. I suspect the raid lead figured that if the options are either give you guys an extra judgement slot, increasing your dps by 50 or something


How did you got this conclusion that gives us 50 DPS?
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Re: Info about classes' value

by smilkovpetko » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:54 pm

Ana wrote:
smilkovpetko wrote:DPS should stop time to time when Shadowflame will be used toward the Tank because it will wipe his aggro


Shadowflame doesn't wipe aggro. Wing buffet takes 25% of aggro.
Also have you heard of taunt?


ok i was wrong , shadow flame doesn't wipe aggro , but Wing Buffet will cause tank to "mandatory" taunt where in that case Taunt can resist and Wing Buffet will happen , where DPS Cheating and Melee Knockback is coming when Shadowflame come

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Ebonroc

Like Firemaw, he does a wing buffet every now and then. Use an offtank to taunt him away from the MT so that he does not get the buffet (50% threat reduction).
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Re: Info about classes' value

by Ana » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:57 pm

Plenty of taunts on Ebonroc thanks to Shadow. Some can get resisted, no big deal.

I didn't come to any 50 dps conclusion regarding Judgement, I just picked up a random number. Do you claim that an extra Judgement which boosts the dps of 2 retridins is a bigger benefit to the raid than Gift of Arthas that benefits every single melee dps?
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Re: Info about classes' value

by smilkovpetko » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:00 pm

Ana wrote:Plenty of taunts on Ebonroc thanks to Shadow. Some can get resisted, no big deal.

I didn't come to any 50 dps conclusion regarding Judgement, I just picked up a random number. Do you claim that an extra Judgement which boosts the dps of 2 retridins is a bigger benefit to the raid than Gift of Arthas that benefits every single melee dps?


Or let say 5 Judgements of the Crusade + 3 Judgements of Wisdom for 24/24 Spamming and benefits 5 Retribution Paladins like no tomorrow. (endless mana + 400-600 Spell Damage).
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