Info about classes' value

[Theloras]

Plenty of taunts on Ebonroc thanks to Shadow. Some can get resisted, no big deal.

I didn't come to any 50 dps conclusion regarding Judgement, I just picked up a random number. Do you claim that an extra Judgement which boosts the dps of 2 retridins is a bigger benefit to the raid than Gift of Arthas that benefits every single melee dps?

Or let say 5 Judgements of the Crusade + 3 Judgements of Wisdom for 24/24 Spamming and benefits 5 Retribution Paladins like no tomorrow. (endless mana + 400-600 Spell Damage).

^^^not to mention Disc Priests^^^ like my boy Smote - for which Smiter and I will be feeding 2 x Judgement of the Crusader plus Sancity Aura for epic pew pew

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... ayer=Smote

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer ... yer=Smiter

[smilkovpetko]

And yet to mention that Ana is clueless regarding where our Bugs stand for those Fights:

Seal/Judgement of Command and weapon/item procs
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2839

Sanctity Aura
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1344

Seal of Command (Delay)
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=1289

[PALADIN] Vengeance not proccing on "spell" crits
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2825

Holy Resistance is on trash and bosses in BWL
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2871

Hammer of Wrath should not be resistible?
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=3302

And yet the Itemization which does not suit with our 1.12 Patch Abilities until Aq40 come.
(example Seal of Command and such other abilities) that should do more DPS until 1.9 and the revamp of Gear.

Now even with all those DPS Bugs and Gamebreaking Gear we still yet see :

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... t=21215718

Holystrike does 500 DPS (that is not yet even close to very BiS) Gear (like talesavo and other paladins).

[Theloras]

I actually read it, but it's long and I cba to address all points because the resulting discussions will suck anyway

2 things I'll pick up:
- 2 judgements on the boss. I suspect the raid lead figured that if the options are either give you guys an extra judgement slot, increasing your dps by 50 or something, or give, say, Gift of Arthas a slot, then the choice is a nobrainer. 16 debuff slots really suck
- WHY is Holystrike not even trying to dps in BWL? Wasn't ret supposed to be good or something? Same goes for MC really. Either the current best dps paladin on the server does a whooping 285.7 average dps (can't say it's intimidating), or he only dpses certain fights and dunno, goes afk on others (he's not on healing meters)... for the purpose of having an excuse as to why his meter ranking is shit, perhaps? Somehow I'm not eager to buy that excuse.

LOL - well if you are to lazy and/or stubborn to reply, then at least take a look at one complete BWL raid instance below in which Holystrike DPS'd and compare him to the top Hunter who was there, Barburos:

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidO ... Raid=27773
- Holystrike came 13th on overall BWL raid instance performance including trash
- Barburos was top hunter @ 14th overall

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=0
- Holystrike came 4th vs Razorgore
- Barburos came 11th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=1
- Holystrike came 10th vs Vaelstraz
- Barburos came 19th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=2
- Holystrike came 5th vs Broodlord Lashlayer
- Barburos came 8th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=3
- Holystrike came 16th vs Firemaw
- Barburos came 11th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=4
- Holystrike came 7th vs Ebonroc
- Barburos came 15th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=5
- Holystrike came 7th vs Flamegor
- Barburos came 16th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=7
- Holystrike came 17th vs Chromaggus
- Barburos came 13th

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Fight ... 73&Fight=9
- Holystrike came 13th vs Nefarian
- Barburos came 19th

Now what do you think was the root cause of Holystrike's worst individual raid boss fight performance being on Chromaggus where he placed 17th?

IT'S CAUSE CHROMAGGUS DOESN'T ROTATE THROUGH A "HOLY WEAKNESS" PHASE WHICH MEANS THAT ALL HOLYSTRIKE CAN DO IS WHITE ATTACKS WITH SEAL OF THE CRUSADER...

This means, no Seal/Judgement of Command and no Consecration.

Now do you understand how intellectually dishonest your data parsing was?!?!?

[smilkovpetko]

Holy Resistance is on trash and bosses in BWL
https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2871

where this including Chromaggus Fight.

[Ana]

Or let say 5 Judgements of the Crusade + 3 Judgements of Wisdom

Leaving 8 debuff slots for...
- sunders
- 3 curses
- TC
- taunt

That's 6, last 2 slots needs to accomodate the following debuffs: winter's chill, improved shadowbolt, shadow weaving, faerie fire, hunter's mark, TF and nightfall (that's the bare essentials). Since that's impossible, you're effectively taking away 10-15% of raid dps (varies between classes, easily 40% from warlocks for example) so that you can live the ret dream. I can sort of understand why raid leaders are reluctant to allow this.


@Theoloras
Why are you comparing the best retridin on the server to some average hunter?

[smilkovpetko]

by Ana » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:35 am
@Theoloras
Why are you comparing the best retridin on the server to some average hunter?

The same reason as you comparing Top DPS with High end Gear to some average Retridin where 80% of his DPS is bugged.

[Armilus]

Hi so I might start to play here but I need answers to these questions because I don't wanna play something that turns out to be useless:

1. Best DPS specs in order (obviously depends on player, but overall) -- both for mid-geared and later on

2. same but for Healing

3. same for Tanking


I'm mostly thinking about shadow priest, ret/prot pala, any hunter, but obviously not opposed to other classes.

If any veterans out here could help me out, that would be appreciated.

Wow, this thread has sure been massively de-railed with irrelevant crap.

1) Frost Mage*, Warlock, Fury Warrior, Combat rogue are all good DPS. Hunters are the bottom of the DPS classes and will probably stay there.

2) Any healing class that has a healing spec is good. Druids are least in demand but also least played so they can still find spots.

3) Warrior for raiding. Feral druid and prot paladin can tank 5mans.

* - Most mobs are immune to fire in BWL and MC. Fire is top DPS in AQ and beyond.


Shadow priest is ok because they buff warlocks, pretty much every guild will only take 1 because they use a lot of debuff slots. Ret/Prot paladin is super amazing and better than anything else in the game by far so long as you are ok with playing entirely by yourself and never being invited to any raid groups (other players will be jealous of just how amazingly awesome you are at everything). Hunters have the worst DPS of all the pure DPS classes but guilds bring them on raids for tranq shot and pulling.

[smilkovpetko]

by Armilus » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:46 am
3) Warrior for raiding. Feral druid and prot paladin can tank 5mans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovC3fkojlE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXV1lqIJr9w
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 6300_o.jpg
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 8017_o.jpg
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 0711_o.jpg
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 7949_o.jpg

[Theloras]

Or let say 5 Judgements of the Crusade + 3 Judgements of Wisdom

Leaving 8 debuff slots for...
- sunders
- 3 curses
- TC
- taunt

That's 6, last 2 slots needs to accomodate the following debuffs: winter's chill, improved shadowbolt, shadow weaving, faerie fire, hunter's mark, TF and nightfall (that's the bare essentials). Since that's impossible, you're effectively taking away 10-15% of raid dps (varies between classes, easily 40% from warlocks for example) so that you can live the ret dream. I can sort of understand why raid leaders are reluctant to allow this.


@Theoloras
Why are you comparing the best retridin on the server to some average hunter?

The following is only if you have 6 Ret Paladins who are able to each put up their own rank of Judgement of the Crusader (JotC) since they all stack for +631 Holy Dmg and are not considered to be cheating or bug abuse:

1. JotC R1 +46 Holy
2. JotC R2 +57 Holy
3. JotC R3 +80 Holy
4. JotC R4 +115 Holy
5. JotC R5 +149 Holy
6. JotC R6 +184 Holy
7. JoLight or Wisdom
8. Nightfall
9. Sunder Armour
10. Taunt
11. Faerie Fire
12. Insect Swarm
13. CoElements
14. CoShadow
15. Imp Shadow Bolt
16. Winter’s Chill
***CoReck/Weak optional***

With this setup, I would only put up 1 rank of Judgement of Wisdom, not 3 but you can adjust accordingly depending on the number of Rets you have.

Warlocks should be kicked from the raid if they are putting up Corruption and/or Curse of Agony as those are completely selfish debuffs that only affect their own individual DPS. Likewise, they should be DS/Ruin spec and spamming nothing but Shadow Bolts anyway.

As far as Shadow Weaving, simply have your Priests go Discipline and everyone wins since Shadow DPS is terrible to begin with and OOM overall.

Why are you comparing the best retridin on the server to some average hunter?

Because it's comparing accurately within his own guild and where Holystrike fairs against each individual boss - not lumping them all together, especially against boss fights in which all he does are white attacks and cleanse melee (i.e.: Chromaggus bring permanently resistant to Holy dmg).

PS LOL @ Hunter's Mark - since it's only useful if the Hunters have 8/8 T2 Bonus...

[Drain]

You shouldn't care about a class's "value". A raid will take everyone, and BGs do not have any choice.