Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by deathcoilz » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:02 pm

How is oil of immolation abuse of game mechanics? You use it and it does damage around you. Sounds working as intended to me
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by Syphonize » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:03 pm

Setup wrote:Right now one tick of corruption does something in the neighborhood of 300 damage/3 seconds, assuming you're SM/ruin spec, you're flasked, and you're getting shadow vulnerability. That 300 is a bit misleading because it doesn't include the damage from the instant shadowbolts that the corruption might create, but lets ignore that. With this napkin math, you would need to average ~38 successful melee strikes in 3 seconds just to match corruption. Not just 38 attacks, but 38 attacks that land.


So following this logic, doesn't Shadow Word: Pain hit harder than Corruption? Why have room for corruption when SW:P hits harder per tick? If I'm wrong, let me know, but napkin math suggests SW:P ticks for more than Corruption does (ignoring instant shadow bolt procs and such).
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by Theloras » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:06 pm

deathcoilz wrote:How is oil of immolation abuse of game mechanics? You use it and it does damage around you. Sounds working as intended to me


Because it was scaling with spell dmg both here and back on peenix when it shouldn't have which allowed players/guilds to abuse bugged game mechanics (cough Soyoen cough Judgement):

Patch 1.6.1 (02-Aug-2005): The Oil of Immolation effect is no longer affected by bonuses to spell damage from items.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Oil_of_Immolation
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by Setup » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:47 am

Syphonize wrote:So following this logic, doesn't Shadow Word: Pain hit harder than Corruption?


That's a good point! I can't say for certain the free shadow bolts you get from corruption would make corruption average more damage than SWP.

Before we run off to do the math, there's a boring, pragmatic answer to consider: shadow priest mana problems. There's going to be tons of circumstances where the shadow priest isn't going to have the mana to keep up a max rank DOT for the entire duration of the fight. Often, shadow priests find themselves casting rank 1 SWP on bosses just to be able to keep up shadow vulnerability.

In the very limited circumstances where shadow priests can keep up SWP for the entire fight, it's plausible that SWP is slightly better than corruption for those fights. But those battles will be few and far between, and probably not worth making exceptions for, even if SWP ends up slightly better in those circumstances.
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by Theloras » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:01 am

Setup wrote:Debuff slot management is important for DPS.
With patch 1.7, this is a list of allowable debuffs for optimal raid DPS:

Warlocks
    3 Curses (COE, COS, COR)
    2 Corruptions
    Imp. Shadowbolt Debuff
    Shadowburn

Mages
    Ignite
    Fireball
    Scorch/Winter’s Chill

Shadow Priest
    Shadow Weaving
    Mindflay
    * Rank 1 SWP (only if OOM)

Rogues
    None
    *Garrote is an acceptable opener in many circumstances.

Druids
    Faerie Fire
    Growl

Hunters
    Ideally nothing.
    Expose Weakness / Hunter’s Mark are fine, if you’ve got several hunters.

Warriors
    Sunder Armor
    Taunt
    Thunderfury
    Deep Wounds
    Nightfall

Shaman
    Nightfall

Paladins
    Nightfall
    *BOL/BOW (only in niche situations ex: Loatheb)


BTW - come next patch here on Nostalrius this list may need to be adjusted accordingly:

Re: Multiple Judgement of Crusade should not be Bannable
by Nano » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:25 am

No one has been banned for this and they won't because it's working as intended. This whole thread has run its course.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p182280

https://report.nostalrius.org/plugins/tracker/?aid=2597
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by deathcoilz » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:19 pm

Setup wrote:
Syphonize wrote:So following this logic, doesn't Shadow Word: Pain hit harder than Corruption?


That's a good point! I can't say for certain the free shadow bolts you get from corruption would make corruption average more damage than SWP.

Before we run off to do the math, there's a boring, pragmatic answer to consider: shadow priest mana problems. There's going to be tons of circumstances where the shadow priest isn't going to have the mana to keep up a max rank DOT for the entire duration of the fight. Often, shadow priests find themselves casting rank 1 SWP on bosses just to be able to keep up shadow vulnerability.

In the very limited circumstances where shadow priests can keep up SWP for the entire fight, it's plausible that SWP is slightly better than corruption for those fights. But those battles will be few and far between, and probably not worth making exceptions for, even if SWP ends up slightly better in those circumstances.


Shouldnt locks not be specced into nightfall and instead be speced into demon sac? since its 5% more dmg? and yep swp is the hardest hitting dot in the game
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by Setup » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:51 pm

With 1.7, some warlocks will be switching to SM/Ruin. That means having nightfall.

Comparing the two specs isn't as simple as looking at shadow mastery (10%) and succubus sac (15%) and saying one is bigger. Being able to use corruption (a very high DPS spell) and being able to get instant shadow bolts displaces the 5% difference.

In the long run, SM/Ruin is the superior spec to DS/Ruin. But since there are only 2 debuff slots available for corruption, most warlocks will end up spec'd as DS/Ruin.
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by smilkovpetko » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:56 pm

Setup wrote:With 1.7, some warlocks will be switching to SM/Ruin. That means having nightfall.

Comparing the two specs isn't as simple as looking at shadow mastery (10%) and succubus sac (15%) and saying one is bigger. Being able to use corruption (a very high DPS spell) and being able to get instant shadow bolts displaces the 5% difference.

In the long run, SM/Ruin is the superior spec to DS/Ruin. But since there are only 2 debuff slots available for corruption, most warlocks will end up spec'd as DS/Ruin.


or you can use (1 out of 4) tank to nightfall boss when he doesn't tank. (not every single boss need 4 tanks) .

So warlocks can stay for more dps.
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by Setup » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:14 pm

I think you're confusing Nightfall (the weapon) with Nightfall (the warlock talent.)

They're very different things.
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Re: Allowable Debuffs for Optimal Raid DPS

by smilkovpetko » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:17 pm

Setup wrote:I think you're confusing Nightfall (the weapon) with Nightfall (the warlock talent.)

They're very different things.


my bad then , got confused , i have 0 experience with warlocks .
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