Rogues verse everything - strats, tips & tricks
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Rogues verse everything - strats, tips & tricks
Hey guys, playing a rogue on nost at the moment in mid 40s and have been enjoying the world pvp battles with most classes. Just thought it'd be interesting to see people's strategies and tips and tricks for versing and beating other classes. Personalised play styles and little things people can pick up to improve their gameplay in pvp.
- Trekky
- Sergeant
Re: Rogues verse everything - strats, tips & tricks
First of all, level Engineering. It is basically required for "serious" PvP on any class, but for Rogues specifically Engineering completely transforms how you are able to play the class.
Second, spec Hemo. It is the best PvP spec all around, no real argument can be made for Daggers. No matter how many mongoloids ran around backstabbing noobs to death in 2004, Hemo is the best PvP spec by miles and that is a fact.
Third, macros are extremely important for Rogue PvP. You can find all of the macros I reference (and many others) in this Feenix thread
Anyway assuming you're Hemo, here are some tips off the top of my head
--------------------------------------------
- Always have tons of Poisons (run Crippling on both weps) as well as Blind Powder, Thistle Tea, and Grenades. If you want to be a real tryhard then carry Free Action Potions, Limited Invulnerability Potions, Anti-Venoms, and Restorative Potions too. This can get expensive though.
- Grenades are game breaking for Rogues. Use them on enemies that are standing still casting or running in a predictable path to get a nice stun that lets you quickly close the distance (or run away). Also, protip, grenades work like this: The enemy will be stunned if they are standing in the area of effect spell icon at the moment you FINISH casting the grenade. Practice timing and placement to master hitting moving targets.
- Reflectors deserve their own section also. Frost and Shadow Reflectors completely change the Rogue class. Both can be used basically like the TBC ability Cloak of Shadows, or can be used with timing and awareness to reflect abilities like Priest or Warlock Fear, Death Coil, Hunter Ice Traps, Mage Shatter Combos, etc.
- Items such as Resto Pots, Anti-Venoms, and the trinket Luffa are great for getting clean Vanishes/Restealths when you have Magic DoTs, Bleeds, Serpent Sting, or Faerie Fire on you. Luffa is a low level quest reward trinket that removes 1 Bleed effect and should be in every Rogues bags.
- When opening Mages, use a weapon swap macro and Ambush them OR Cheap Shot and immediately Gouge. I prefer CS/Gouge for the combo point generation. Often when you CS/Gouge the Mage will waste his blink and be Gouged where his blink finishes. This is also significantly easier to pull off on Nostalrius because of the input lag.
- Don't spam Hemo mindlessly. Make sure you have enough Energy to kick when you need to. Also know what spells to kick. For example, kicking a Shadow spell against a Priest or a Fire spell against a Warlock is usually bad.
- Pause fights with Gouge to pool energy and maintain control whenever you can. Keep in mind that Sap, Rocket Helm and a few other abilities share DR with Gouge, and the reduced duration is not shown by AddOns such as StunWatch.
- Use Blind defensively. Lots of Rogues like to use Blind as soon as their initial stunlock ends if their target is not dead yet. While doing this does allow you to cheese your way to victory in almost any 1v1, you will be a far better and more effective player if you learn to save Blind for defensive use.
- Many classes such as Hunters and Warlocks are forced to use a Cooldown to peel you if they want to survive your opener. Most players will be spamming Scatter Shot, Death Coil, etc while they are in your stunlock. Try to anticipate the peel and use abilities that counter it, such as Shadow Reflector or Vanish for Death Coil, or Skull of Impending Doom (quest offhand from Badlands) for Scatter Shot + Trap.
- Speaking of Skull of Impending Doom, it is one of the most important items to have for Rogue PvP. If you properly anticipate/react to your opponents abilities, skull can be used to counter Sheep, Blind, Seduce, Scatter Shot + Trap, and any other CC that breaks on damage. It's an offhand so it can be equipped/unequipped even in combat. Be sure to have a cancel aura macro or unequip macro keybound so that you don't kill yourself with it.
- Know which classes can get out of your stuns and how. The classes with PvP trinkets that work on Stuns are Paladins, Shamans, Priests, Warriors, Hunters, and Druids. Try to anticipate and react to your opponent trinketing your stuns. For example, a Hunter can trinket your stun and Scatter Shot + Trap you at any moment, and if he gets you trapped and gets a Flare down then it becomes extremely unlikely that you will win the fight. Be ready to counter the Hunter's trinket with skull, or a quick Blind/Vanish. Another example... if you Cheap Shot a (typical average) Druid, be ready for him to trinket the Cheap Shot and immediately shift to travel form or caster form. (Again, good Druids won't play this way, but 99% of Druids on Nostalrius aren't good.) If you anticipate his trinket, you can catch him in a Kidney or Gouge--> Kidney outside of Bear form and probably kill him.
- Pay attention to what stance Warriors are in. If he goes defensive stance, you're vulnerable to disarm (unless you have T2 gloves ofc). If he goes Berzerker Stance then he can break Sap and Gouge. If he is in Battle Stance, expect a huge Overpower crit to eat your face as soon as you dodge one of his attacks. (Be very careful using Evasion against Arms Warriors...)
- Rogue v.s. Rogue fights are basically decided by who gets the opener. If the enemy Rogue gets the opener on YOU, then just spam Blind as hard as you can. This way (unless he is Dwarf) if he leaves any gap in his stunlock, or fails to kill you in its duration, you are guaranteed a restealth and you gain control of the fight. Once you have the opener, stunlock your opponent for as long as you can (Cheap --> Gouge --> Kidney is standard) and be sure you leave absolutely no gaps between your stuns (download StunWatch and adjust a bit for lag). If your stunlock is going to end before the other Rogue dies, then the best options is to get a Rupture up on him and run out of his Blind range so you can restealth or Vanish. Or you can always go super cheese mode and Vanish + Sap or Blind + restealth as your stunlock ends.
- Use Expose Armor often, especially in group fights. With Improved Expose Amror talent (which you should have) it is incredibly OP. Use it against Warriors, Druids in Bear Form, and Priests (tons of armor from Inner Fire is one of the main things that makes Priests hard to kill). Against these 3 classes, Expose Armor is one of your best abilities, so use it.
- Also remember that Expose Armor deals no damage, so if you use a macro that stops your auto-attack, you can use Expose Armor without breaking Gouge/Blind/Sap on the target. You can do this without a macro but it is tricky, and a macro is much more reliable. Some great combo tactics are possible using this method in duels.
- You can use a similar macro to Cheap Shot players that are sapped without dealing damage. This lets you stack 4-5 combo points on a target before actually opening them. It can be useful in super tryhard duels, but IMO its a pretty cheese strat and usually isn't worth doing.
- Speaking of macros, make one that starts your auto-attack when you press Hemo. This way, if you are out of Energy you can still immediately start your atto-attack without that awkward moment of dealing no damage while you wait on Energy ticks.
I'll come back and add some more info as I think of it
Second, spec Hemo. It is the best PvP spec all around, no real argument can be made for Daggers. No matter how many mongoloids ran around backstabbing noobs to death in 2004, Hemo is the best PvP spec by miles and that is a fact.
Third, macros are extremely important for Rogue PvP. You can find all of the macros I reference (and many others) in this Feenix thread
Anyway assuming you're Hemo, here are some tips off the top of my head
--------------------------------------------
- Always have tons of Poisons (run Crippling on both weps) as well as Blind Powder, Thistle Tea, and Grenades. If you want to be a real tryhard then carry Free Action Potions, Limited Invulnerability Potions, Anti-Venoms, and Restorative Potions too. This can get expensive though.
- Grenades are game breaking for Rogues. Use them on enemies that are standing still casting or running in a predictable path to get a nice stun that lets you quickly close the distance (or run away). Also, protip, grenades work like this: The enemy will be stunned if they are standing in the area of effect spell icon at the moment you FINISH casting the grenade. Practice timing and placement to master hitting moving targets.
- Reflectors deserve their own section also. Frost and Shadow Reflectors completely change the Rogue class. Both can be used basically like the TBC ability Cloak of Shadows, or can be used with timing and awareness to reflect abilities like Priest or Warlock Fear, Death Coil, Hunter Ice Traps, Mage Shatter Combos, etc.
- Items such as Resto Pots, Anti-Venoms, and the trinket Luffa are great for getting clean Vanishes/Restealths when you have Magic DoTs, Bleeds, Serpent Sting, or Faerie Fire on you. Luffa is a low level quest reward trinket that removes 1 Bleed effect and should be in every Rogues bags.
- When opening Mages, use a weapon swap macro and Ambush them OR Cheap Shot and immediately Gouge. I prefer CS/Gouge for the combo point generation. Often when you CS/Gouge the Mage will waste his blink and be Gouged where his blink finishes. This is also significantly easier to pull off on Nostalrius because of the input lag.
- Don't spam Hemo mindlessly. Make sure you have enough Energy to kick when you need to. Also know what spells to kick. For example, kicking a Shadow spell against a Priest or a Fire spell against a Warlock is usually bad.
- Pause fights with Gouge to pool energy and maintain control whenever you can. Keep in mind that Sap, Rocket Helm and a few other abilities share DR with Gouge, and the reduced duration is not shown by AddOns such as StunWatch.
- Use Blind defensively. Lots of Rogues like to use Blind as soon as their initial stunlock ends if their target is not dead yet. While doing this does allow you to cheese your way to victory in almost any 1v1, you will be a far better and more effective player if you learn to save Blind for defensive use.
- Many classes such as Hunters and Warlocks are forced to use a Cooldown to peel you if they want to survive your opener. Most players will be spamming Scatter Shot, Death Coil, etc while they are in your stunlock. Try to anticipate the peel and use abilities that counter it, such as Shadow Reflector or Vanish for Death Coil, or Skull of Impending Doom (quest offhand from Badlands) for Scatter Shot + Trap.
- Speaking of Skull of Impending Doom, it is one of the most important items to have for Rogue PvP. If you properly anticipate/react to your opponents abilities, skull can be used to counter Sheep, Blind, Seduce, Scatter Shot + Trap, and any other CC that breaks on damage. It's an offhand so it can be equipped/unequipped even in combat. Be sure to have a cancel aura macro or unequip macro keybound so that you don't kill yourself with it.
- Know which classes can get out of your stuns and how. The classes with PvP trinkets that work on Stuns are Paladins, Shamans, Priests, Warriors, Hunters, and Druids. Try to anticipate and react to your opponent trinketing your stuns. For example, a Hunter can trinket your stun and Scatter Shot + Trap you at any moment, and if he gets you trapped and gets a Flare down then it becomes extremely unlikely that you will win the fight. Be ready to counter the Hunter's trinket with skull, or a quick Blind/Vanish. Another example... if you Cheap Shot a (typical average) Druid, be ready for him to trinket the Cheap Shot and immediately shift to travel form or caster form. (Again, good Druids won't play this way, but 99% of Druids on Nostalrius aren't good.) If you anticipate his trinket, you can catch him in a Kidney or Gouge--> Kidney outside of Bear form and probably kill him.
- Pay attention to what stance Warriors are in. If he goes defensive stance, you're vulnerable to disarm (unless you have T2 gloves ofc). If he goes Berzerker Stance then he can break Sap and Gouge. If he is in Battle Stance, expect a huge Overpower crit to eat your face as soon as you dodge one of his attacks. (Be very careful using Evasion against Arms Warriors...)
- Rogue v.s. Rogue fights are basically decided by who gets the opener. If the enemy Rogue gets the opener on YOU, then just spam Blind as hard as you can. This way (unless he is Dwarf) if he leaves any gap in his stunlock, or fails to kill you in its duration, you are guaranteed a restealth and you gain control of the fight. Once you have the opener, stunlock your opponent for as long as you can (Cheap --> Gouge --> Kidney is standard) and be sure you leave absolutely no gaps between your stuns (download StunWatch and adjust a bit for lag). If your stunlock is going to end before the other Rogue dies, then the best options is to get a Rupture up on him and run out of his Blind range so you can restealth or Vanish. Or you can always go super cheese mode and Vanish + Sap or Blind + restealth as your stunlock ends.
- Use Expose Armor often, especially in group fights. With Improved Expose Amror talent (which you should have) it is incredibly OP. Use it against Warriors, Druids in Bear Form, and Priests (tons of armor from Inner Fire is one of the main things that makes Priests hard to kill). Against these 3 classes, Expose Armor is one of your best abilities, so use it.
- Also remember that Expose Armor deals no damage, so if you use a macro that stops your auto-attack, you can use Expose Armor without breaking Gouge/Blind/Sap on the target. You can do this without a macro but it is tricky, and a macro is much more reliable. Some great combo tactics are possible using this method in duels.
- You can use a similar macro to Cheap Shot players that are sapped without dealing damage. This lets you stack 4-5 combo points on a target before actually opening them. It can be useful in super tryhard duels, but IMO its a pretty cheese strat and usually isn't worth doing.
- Speaking of macros, make one that starts your auto-attack when you press Hemo. This way, if you are out of Energy you can still immediately start your atto-attack without that awkward moment of dealing no damage while you wait on Energy ticks.
I'll come back and add some more info as I think of it
Ohhgee
Level 60 Human Mage
<NOPE>
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Ohhgee
- Stone Guard
Re: Rogues verse everything - strats, tips & tricks
Just read the wall of knowledge you've left here. Really great tips and tricks man. I'll give them a go when I can man.
If you play at the moment would you be keen to play in game and show me / put some of this into practice?
If you play at the moment would you be keen to play in game and show me / put some of this into practice?
- Trekky
- Sergeant
3 posts
• Page 1 of 1