+Healing versus int/spirit

[krarox]

Hi!

very interesting thoughts, and i hadnt thought of the + heal scaling better with lower ranks, because of manaratio.

I only do 5 mans with my friends, atm we do BRD, does this change the preference for +heal vs int considering there is less buffs and im the only healer, and in general i guess figts are shorter then raid bosses, but often very bursty in beginning when boss + some add is spanking my tank?

[Jeniwyn]

That is a really hard question to answer.

For a one min fight an initial calculation following the normal method would yield that int is about 3.5 times as good as one +healing. Now that is all fine and good, until you end up having tons of mana over at the end of the fight even though you used very high rank spells overall. This is strike one against the standard method in short fights.

Strike two would be if we spam max rank Flash Heal or Greater Heal (higher HPS if the damage isn't bursty enough to kill the tank and we aren't afraid of getting interrupted) and still the tank is in trouble. Int doesn't help here, but +healing does. This also comes into play in longer fights but generally to a much lesser extent.

Both of these scenarios are very real, but notoriously hard to compensate for mathematically. It basically comes down to a judgment call. I think that it is reasonable to value int at close to 2 healing for five mans, even higher if running out of resources is your most common issue in hard pulls. This is if you use a regenset and a full mana set. If you don't, then something like 1.5 might be more prudent. I dunno.

[Rylox]

How can INT be worth more +heal on a shorter fight where you're less likely to need that mana?

[Jeniwyn]

How can INT be worth more +heal on a shorter fight where you're less likely to need that mana?

+healing and manastats are fairly interchangeable as long as you do not have enough mana to cast max rank of your spells for the entire duration of the fight.

The value of int is a constant 15 mana while the value of +healing increases with the number of spells cast. Thus the comparative value of +healing will go up as the fights get longer.

[Ana]

How can INT be worth more +heal on a shorter fight where you're less likely to need that mana?

Use the extra mana to uprank your spells.

[Imbaslap]

for starting in 5mans and even UBRS.. hell maybe even MC or Ony you can get away with skating a bit on the +heal and gathering more stats for longer fights.(200-300 for priests and gather int/spirit items to help get a good baseline of total mana)

there are certain +healing thresholds you want to be at though for different raiding tiers. Certain encounters require different ranks of healing if you're tank healing(because some mobs just take a complete dump on them like the wyrmguards in bwl).

I always say +500 healing is a great baseline for using rank 1 heal + rank 1 greater heal for anything MC and below related. (you can go up some for rag tank healing if your tanks are getting dumped on and very spikey)

don't forget that spirit also gives you some extra healing from holy tree as well! so don't just look at spirit on items as non-cast Mana regen. its a small bonus here and there that can add up quickly.

when you're over 500 healing, really start looking at your stats more and start min/maxing the areas you feel weak in. as always, gather mana potions and demonic/dark runes (or get a lei of lilies necklace for lily roots) as this will be your main consumable in any content you do until you outgear it. there are a lot of ways to really boost your +healing through enchants and 5/10 man gear from Dire maul and such. with ZG out, that 20 man is packed full of +healing items for fresh raiders. (55 healing turban for instance with stats)


don't expect to walk into the forums and expect everyone to tell you how to play the game and your class. anyone can give you a spreadsheet and say this is best on paper and so and so. every encounter is different, which means healing will never be so cut and dry. if you feel like you're overhealing too much, start looking at why (could just be a shitty greener tank getting dumped on, and not necessarily your fault cuz he doesn't know how to play his class) trial and error is the best way.

gauge the amount of healing you can do, the average amount you can handle, and find out what sort of damage the mobs can deal to:
1) a freshly dungeon geared tank (or shitty greener tank that isn't prot spec)
2) a MC geared tank in epics
3) an overgeared tank in tier 2.

obviously #1 will require more healing and more mana being expended. this is where it gets rough on you as a healer because you have to pump out more heals (possibly stronger ones from upranking) to cover the amount of damage they are taking.

a great addon to help you decide how much you want to heal him for and what would be a great spell to use, get the theorycraft addon and enable (avg healing) for your healing spells. This addon puts the average numbers on the actual healing spells themselves on your hotbar. This is a great tool in helping you decide how much you want to heal someone for without thinking about it that much.

A heal rank 1 with 500+ healing avgs around 800-900. which means, in dungeons on a fresh tank like BRD. expect to be mindlessly using rank 1 heal(if the greener tank is tanking like 7 mobs, switch to bigger heals like greater heal) throughout the dungeon.

it's really just making up the difference. when a tank is going into a group of 4 mobs (with 0 CC) expect those 4 mobs to hit for about 100-200 damage per hit every 1.5s.. ok let's talk worst case scenario. That tank will eat about 80% of those hits based on his gear level.
so seeing him go in there, queue up a greater heal. you can catch the tank getting hit about 4-5 times before your heal lands. now this is where you can use Fade if you gain heal aggro, or queue up another greater heal. if you are healing for more than 40% of the damage taken at the start, then dial back on the greater heal and start using rank 3 heal or rank 2 heal. this is where you can gauge the damage the tank is taking on average, and where you feel like you can handle healing with the best rank of heals possible. (could be rank 3 heals for simple dog packs, or greater heals for big golem packs)

honestly, its really about how you play a healer and knowing what spell is best for what situation. the more +healing you have as a fresh 60, the more mana you can save from downranking and healing power you have compared to a priest with just +stats on their gearsets.

don't trade all your gear for +healing because you need to have stamina and such incase you take some aoe damage from a boss or maybe a trash mob in a dungeon. a dead priest can't heal, so make sure you can stay alive while keeping others alive as well.
(keep in mind that there are other players in the dungeon you're in. if everyone is going crazy and just brute forcing everything and the tank can't hold aggro or dps just attack it before a tank touches it; don't blame yourself when they die, they are just bad)

[Ayag]

Anyone has a source or know the maths behind the stats equivalent on the first page (hb/int/mp5) etc ?
Really curious about it, and while I don't say it's false, I find some values very odd, so would like to see the reasoning
Cheers

[Jeniwyn]

Anyone has a source or know the maths behind the stats equivalent on the first page (hb/int/mp5) etc ?
Really curious about it, and while I don't say it's false, I find some values very odd, so would like to see the reasoning
Cheers

The numbers are based on the "standard" way of calculating mana vs healing and that is.

1 healing = (length_of_fight/average_time_between_heals)
×average_heal_coefficient
×average_uprank_mana_difference
/average_uprank_healing_difference

(Downrank values are normally used for maxrank spells due to lack of alternative methods)

1 crit% = no agreed upon standard method. I think he tries to convert it to +healing without taking either overhealing or armor buff into account. I personally just value it at 5 +healing (that's rather low, intentionally so based on the fact that my crits are often close to 100% overhealing) and move on

1 mp5 = length_of_fight/5

1 int = 15 + critvalue/59.5 (Times 1.1 if alliance with Blessing of Kings)

1 spi = c.b.a to type it out but how much mana is generated given estimated time in five second rule and talents, setbonuses etc + 0.25×the value of +healing. Then multiply by 1.1 if alliance (Blessing of Kings) and an additional 1.05 if human. (5% spirit racial.)

All values are then normally divided by the value for 1 +healing, to get HEP. (Healing Equivalent Points)

Obviously this method depends heavily on what assumptions you make for the different averages. The table quoted on page 1 assumes (if I remember correctly and I think I do) that the only spell used is Heal Rank 2 and that it is cast with 2.5s intervals for 2 or 15 minutes respectively with 0 time outside of the 5 second rule.

I find the values generated by those assumptions very weak and have instead made my own estimated with the data I've recorded from my own raiding. For me personally these values are obviously significantly more accurate, but I think that they are also more accurate for anyone who doesn't spam Heal Rank 2/3 without aborting.

I should probably update the numbers since the sample size used was really small, but here is a link to those values anyway.

Link here.

[Ayag]

Mmmm .. ok, thanks for the explanation.

Regarding crit, I personnaly don't value it at all (almost) because itemizing for it is hard and crit are unreliable by nature. When a heal crits, it's nice. But you don't expect your heal to crit so you don't adjust the rank of your heal regarding that aspect. Only exception would be Focus + GH4/5 but that's one every 3mn to make it simple.

I think the value of intellect are rather high aswell. Mana is easily compensated for (flask/manapots/runes/mp5 buffs) whereas the healing can only be obtained by gear, mana oil (25hb) and spirit food buff (but that's rather low, you usually go for nightfin).

In the end, I tend to only compare +hb & mp5 when looking at items (including talent & regen in combat obviously), but I have yet to find a suitable way to compare how much healing would be 1mp5. Basically the only thing I could say it that 1mp5 is somewhere between 0 healing & 6 healing, since you usually enchant your bracers with +24hb instead of 4mp5.

That's still a pretty big gap and I usually favor healing over mp5 when the ratio is around 4. But I don't know if it's "correct", feel free to enlighten me on that aspect.

Regards.

[Jeniwyn]

I think the value of intellect are rather high aswell. Mana is easily compensated for (flask/manapots/runes/mp5 buffs) whereas the healing can only be obtained by gear, mana oil (25hb) and spirit food buff (but that's rather low, you usually go for nightfin).

If you have mana over and want more +healing. Start casting higher ranks of your heals. If you are at the point where GH4, PoH4 and FH7 are virtually the only heals you use and you still don't oom. Sure, you have a point. But not many players are in that situation.