Is DM/Ruin a viable PvE spec?

[Suecotero]

Asking because DM bonus with Succubus out is 10%. DS only gives you 5% more and you lose pet DPS. DM succubi with improved lash of pain should make up for the damage loss.

I always hear the problem is raid AoE and pet survivability, but aren't the set bonuses for felheart and nemesis made to address that problem, what with the massive stam-resistance buffs? Worst case scenario you could run felstalker for more resistances plus nifty dispels. Also, if one encounter is particularly AoE-heavy, just DS and pretend you're 21 points into demo.

Any experienced raiding locks out there care to explain?

[Botmaster5]

DM/Ruin is viable in a few instances, namely twin emps tanking for the +60 shadow resist felhunter when you cant get 230 shadow resist just form gear.

dm/ruin is very close to ds/ruin insofar that you can sac your succubus for 15% shadow damage... you just lose 2% mana reduction on destro spells, 2/2 imp lifetap (this really hurts), and 5/5 imp corr for instant corruption

dont get me wrong, DM/Ruin with 3/3 imp imp, 2/2 imp firebolt, and the black book trinket off razorgore is mad fun. thats 30 seconds of avg 250dps just form imp.

[Darkwinjax]

DS / ruin is the only viable pve spec.

[Lifealert]

DS / ruin is the only viable pve spec.

Part of me wants to argue that SM / Ruin is on the same playing field as ds/ruin because consistent nightfall procs can supersede the 5% damage increase DS has over SM.

[Botmaster5]

DS / ruin is the only viable pve spec.

Part of me wants to argue that SM / Ruin is on the same playing field as ds/ruin because consistent nightfall procs can supersede the 5% damage increase DS has over SM.

even in the land of 16 debuffs, corruption still gets pushed off from time to time.
ds/ruin is the 'more reliable' best spec for pve damage

[Dr. Doom]

You have to understand people here have a funny understanding of semantics.

Viable, for the rest of the world, means possible, conducive. In other words, is it enough to do X task? The answer for your question is then yes.

If we're talking the 'viable' as understood by the toxic Nostalrius forums, meaning absolutely minmaxed, unnecessarily tryhardy road, then maybe it'll lack something in their eyes.

[Darkwinjax]

DS / ruin is the only viable pve spec.

Part of me wants to argue that SM / Ruin is on the same playing field as ds/ruin because consistent nightfall procs can supersede the 5% damage increase DS has over SM.

Here's abit of abstraction, no concrete numbers, just my personal input has I really CBA crunch down the numbers cause i'm sure there's more warlocks dedicated to PvE than me that can break it down mathmaticaly.


Corruption is only worth wasting a global on if it stays up for it's full duration, Shadowbolt does more damage than Corruption otherwise, if you are assigned a curse you are already losing 1 global that could've been used on a shadowbolt, this isn't really noticable in single boss fights since in the average guild they last enough time so that you can have corruption up 3-4 times (Not sure how fast the average guild kills shit but I guess that's a good amount of times you can apply corruption so that it ticks fully before the boss is dead).

However in trash packs, mobs are going to be dying in enough time so that you can't even apply a full duration Corruption, and the global that you lose on Curse + Corruption will often cost you an extra shadowbolt, which will far outweight the Corruption ticks, if you could've gotten an extra Shadowbolt before the Corruption ticks it's full duration, then you already lost DPS, in the worst case you will lose 1 Shadowbolt of DPS and in the average case you will lose 1 Shadowbolt - X Corruption ticks, maximizing trash dps then becomes a matter of how many Shadowbolts can you fit in before the mob is dead (Assuming you are using DC + Shadowburn when you are sure you won't get another Shadowbolt to land).

DS / ruin gives you an extra 5% damage on Corruption and Shadowbolt. This means that unless you get Nightfall procs on every trash pack you will lose DPS, and in the long run it becomes noticable unless you got
lucky with your procs.

In single target boss fights, I believe SM / Ruin can beat DS / ruin by alot if played correctly and you get a good amount of procs, however this won't be happening and the faster your guild is killing shit the less chances for nightfall procs you will have.

Conclusion : SM / Ruin is a viable PvE spec, but on average it will perform bellow DS / ruin and in the worst case scenario it will perform considerably worse than DS / ruin, the faster and more efficient your guild is at killing shit, this only gets worse and you will notice that the fights where you have 0 nightfall procs are alot more common than the fights where you get those procs, making DS / ruin the overall best raid spec, if you want to beat records and be the #1 warlock on boss fights, just play SM / ruin and wait for the week where you get a good RNG with nightfall procs and you rape the metters. IMO, if you are going to have Corruption has an acceptable debuff slot you might aswell give it to a DS / ruin warlock (Which is the spec every warlock should have) since on the average case you will get 0 nightfall procs making the 5% more dmg to corruption a better trade off than speccing SM / Ruin.

Don't get me wrong, if my guild allowed it I would be SM / ruin for life since it's also the best PvP spec and I'd avoid spending 100g every week to play the game.

[Lifealert]

You have to understand people here have a funny understanding of semantics.

Viable, for the rest of the world, means possible, conducive. In other words, is it enough to do X task? The answer for your question is then yes.

If we're talking the 'viable' as understood by the toxic Nostalrius forums, meaning absolutely minmaxed, unnecessarily tryhardy road, then maybe it'll lack something in their eyes.

I once saw a vicious argument take place in STV chat between multiple people because someone used the word viable. Pretty funny.

Large block of text

I think you bring up many insightful points. I first wish to mention that I was only considering boss fights when I submitted my post. I almost never corrupt trash. The only reason I stated that part of me wishes to argue in favor of SM/Ruin is because I once sought to defeat an SMruin lock on the meters in my guild by switching over to DSruin. Sadly this did not occur and I became rather disappointed in the spec. I just have one question: Is it worth doing corruption as DS ruin when you already have a curse to put up? This is assuming you have a free debuff slot.

[Darkwinjax]

You have to understand people here have a funny understanding of semantics.

Viable, for the rest of the world, means possible, conducive. In other words, is it enough to do X task? The answer for your question is then yes.

If we're talking the 'viable' as understood by the toxic Nostalrius forums, meaning absolutely minmaxed, unnecessarily tryhardy road, then maybe it'll lack something in their eyes.

I once saw a vicious argument take place in STV chat between multiple people because someone used the word viable. Pretty funny.

Large block of text

I think you bring up many insightful points. I first wish to mention that I was only considering boss fights when I submitted my post. I almost never corrupt trash. The only reason I stated that part of me wishes to argue in favor of SM/Ruin is because I once sought to defeat an SMruin lock on the meters in my guild by switching over to DSruin. Sadly this did not occur and I became rather disappointed in the spec. I just have one question: Is it worth doing corruption as DS ruin when you already have a curse to put up? This is assuming you have a free debuff slot.

Independendly of spec, if you are allowed to do corruption on boss fights you should do it, it does more damage than shadowbolt on average for an instant cast.

I'd say perfect rotation would be getting corruption up + no curse spam Sbolt til 3-4 stacks of Shadow vuln pop trinket, ask for PI and start going ham, you will be able to cast 2-3 shadowbolts with PI + trinket and refresh corruption with all buffs (It ticks for 450+ without nightfall on the target, with nightfall I had 500+ ticks when I raided with SM / ruin so you can do the math, with DS / ruin you will get even 5% more dmg on it), you lose that global but it's def worth, cast 1 or 2 more shadowbolts and make sure to use Shadowburn b4 trinket wears down.

Always prioritize shadowburn over every other global when you see nightfall + imp shadowbolt on the target and abusing these debuffs + trinkets + PI that dictates the best warlock in boss fights. That and gear ofc plus RNG if you don't have a tear yet.

[isador]

There is an another problem for Sm-Ruin specced warlock which is agro. Because usually Sm-Ruin Warlock will be placed in Tank party without Tranq totem.

edit: for horde side ofcourse