Transition from Holy to Retribution

Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by Theloras » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:11 pm

JCarrill0 wrote:
smilkovpetko wrote:JC using different ranks judgement of the crusade is not Glitch , it is working properly as i gave every single evidence for this .
Theoloras is not using glitch , he is doing it properly.

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... he+crusade
This is for JC.

Thanks for the heads up, but I consider it cheating, and I consider it a glitch, weather Nost considers it the same or you consider it the same is just a matter of opinion. period.
If you wish to call it down-ranking, that's fine, I just don't consider it legit.

These are just my opinion nor am I trying to force my opinion to anyone else.

please don't turn this thread into a debate.


Dude...

I don't even know how to respond to this.
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by Memegank » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:43 pm

Spam
Last edited by Pottu on Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spam
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by JCarrill0 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:15 pm

Theloras wrote:Dude...

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I promise Theo it's nothing personal, do your thing bud!
who knows maybe one day I'll try it out with ya, but for now, these are my thoughts :)
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by Theloras » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:35 pm

JCarrill0 wrote:
Theloras wrote:Dude...

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I promise Theo it's nothing personal, do your thing bud!
who knows maybe one day I'll try it out with ya, but for now, these are my thoughts :)


"I consider it cheating, and I consider it a glitch, weather Nost considers it the same or you consider it the same is just a matter of opinion. period. If you wish to call it down-ranking, that's fine, I just don't consider it legit."

I've been called many things on both this forum and previously back on Peenix, but this one is probably the harshest, especially that it came from another Paladin...

#NotImpressed
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by DrearyYew » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:43 pm

Raids bring Rets for the utility, not the damage. Their damage is going to be sub-par until Naxx, and there is no way around it.

The utility that a Ret brings is what makes them viable. Unlike HPalas, Rets do not need to stop casting in order to perform tasks like Cleansing, BoPing, Lay on Hands for the Tank, or throwing a Blessing on a target if the died and were battle res'd. Rets also have an easier time keeping Blessing of Sacrifice up on a tank, redirecting 55 damage from every hit to themselves. As for Lay on Hands, Ret Paladins do need their mana to dps effectively, but their mana is much less important to them than it is to a Holy Paladin. Ret Paladins also have the benefit of being glued to the boss, where they can effectively regen mana from Judgement of Wisdom. Rets can also be your designated Nightfall bot, and are very effective at doing so. In addition, a Ret Paladin can still throw on a dress and heal relatively effectively. They won't beat true Holy Paladins, of course, but the ability to switch to healing depending on encounter is extremely valuable, and is something that no other melee DPS can do (Ferals *can*, but are much less effective at doing so).

So if anyone tells you that Ret DPS isn't viable, they are both right and wrong. In terms of raw DPS, a Ret Paladin is not viable. However, in terms of raid utility, Ret DPS is extremely viable. If your raid does not need the extra utility that a Ret Paladin brings, then they are not viable. If your raid could use the extra utility, then yes, a Ret Paladin will be extremely valuable.

Keep in mind that if you are to be useful to your raid, you can't just sit and tunnel the boss like Rogues and Warriors. You have to keep an eye open and use your utility to your raids advantage. If you don't do this, you are dead weight to your raid. Unfortunately, 95% of Ret Paladins on this server forget this fact, and play as if they were a Warrior. This gives Ret Paladins a bad reputation, which will make it difficult to convince raids to take you.

What I would do if I were you is I would stick it out as Holy until the AQ release. Let your raid leader know that you are extremely interested in going Ret, and let them know about the utility that a Ret Paladin brings. Also volunteer to be a Nightfall bot if your raid doesn't have one. Even then, it's not a bad thing to have more than 1 Nightfall bot, but 1 is usually enough if your offtanks all also have one.

It's also good to mention that AQ and Naxx are when Ret DPS finally hits its stride. Blizzard finally releases gear with STR, SP, and Melee Crit with T2.5 for Paladins, which drops in AQ, which remains as BiS through Naxx. The release of Naxx also allows us access to DPS spells like Exorcism and Holy Wrath, which is another bonus to our DPS, especially given the SP gear we got out of AQ. In Naxx, Ret DPS isn't competitive with Warriors obviously, but becomes competitive with most DPS classes. Check out the infamous Esotarious video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEs9coe5XRg

It's also worth mentioning that Esotarious wasn't playing optimally. He was using an Axe, which means he missed out on the human racial of +5 swords and maces, and didn't have Consecrate specced, which is a huge DPS loss. He also was not using HoJ, and did not have Libram of Fervor equipped. He was also under the hit cap by 2%. Again, this doesn't mean much now since Naxx is a long way away, but it's still worth mentioning that in retail vanilla a Ret Paladin was competitive in terms of DPS in Naxx despite not playing optimally.
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by smilkovpetko » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:50 pm

The first impressive tough by DrearyYew about retribution , not that i agree with him , but i like his point of view regarding this which at least half is true. (not the cleanse,dps viability and nightfall proc) but some other things gave me impression .
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by DrearyYew » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:53 pm

So close...


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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by JCarrill0 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:36 am

Theloras wrote:
JCarrill0 wrote:
Theloras wrote:Dude...

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I promise Theo it's nothing personal, do your thing bud!
who knows maybe one day I'll try it out with ya, but for now, these are my thoughts :)


"I consider it cheating, and I consider it a glitch, weather Nost considers it the same or you consider it the same is just a matter of opinion. period. If you wish to call it down-ranking, that's fine, I just don't consider it legit."

I've been called many things on both this forum and previously back on Peenix, but this one is probably the harshest, especially that it came from another Paladin...

#NotImpressed

well truly I am sorry then, but that is how I feel about it personally. I mean no disrespect, but again, it is how I feel.
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by Imbaslap » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:53 am

533dps...
comparing to mages doing a horrid job of ignite rolling. you do understand how mage dps works right? and how that the mages who are not the igniter get 0 benefit from the dmg but the one who has the first ignite gets it inflated. in reality, those mages should have 20k more damage added to them because of ignite alone.
he was comparable to hunters which is pretty sad.(then again, this was back in the day when people are still learning the game even in Naxx) this also questions how well hunter dps will be in Naxxramas as it doesn't get much fluff/love. regardless, hunters are still a required class for encounters and buff melee with TSA.

sure, you guys do suboptimal dps in Naxx, but lets generalize the basics here.
on a tanknspank fight with no movement involved patchwork, he did 500 dps. right now T1/T2 players do more than that on golemagg/magmadar. there are also dps warriors who do 1100 DPS on patchwork dating back to 2006. so essentially 1 dps warrior = 2 AQ geared retardins attempting to do gud.

even if you min/maxed it, you still wont be up there. lets also consider the fights where you would "have" to roll holy or be sat out. (like 4horsemen). thaddius would be fun with the number inflation but still, your scaling wont be as high as other classes on that fight.(could still beat a hunter probably too) Maexxna, you will pretty much be gimped by web wrap. you may get some inflation from consecrate on adds, but you may be a ez target for them/die. anub rehkan, melee is so cancer on that fight to begin with due to the impales and locust swarms. your dps would be on a crypt stalker and the bugs. grand widow faerlina is just asking for trouble since you NEED cleanses on that fight for the poison volley. dodging rain of fire will also be a chore.
noth the plaguebringer, threat reset and movement change. you could do fine on the adds, but what's the point. loatheb, you get spore 100% crit bonus and no threat.. critdoesnt even do much for you over fire mages/warlocks/rogues/warriors/hunters would with 100% crit. you're still gimped on the auto attack swing timer and have to manage JoL's. heigen is a cancer fest for melee if you cannot dance, that will be fun. grobbulous is so cancerous for melee with the dodging of poison poop and killing giant globs of poop. enjoy that one. gluth is not melee friendly with 20s fear bombs. you would probably be on add duty AFAIK. worthless on razuvious, maybe viable on gothic for UD side, but still very cancerous on the raid damage taken during that encounter. 4horsemen, you may as well sit out. sapphiron, you may as well sit out as well due to frost resist gimp and dodging cancer blizzards. KT = another sit out because it is horrid on melee already and how strenuous interrupts have to be. I wouldn't even consider a ret pally on patchwork unless he was holy, I would bring another lock/mage/rogue in his stead or another healer. 533 dps is complete ass to be honest in AQ quality gear.

there are some great encounters that ret pally CAN do amazing at, but that's only part of the pizza. any other encounter, you're going to be a gimp and possibly forced into healing/sat based on what is needed.

if you seriously think a ret pally deserves a priority spot when holy pallies ALREADY do exactly what you do in regards to utility and provide amazing tank healing. you need to relearn how to play this game.
just my opinion though.

I'm still not impressed by this blind belief that ret pally is top tier and worth a spot when a healer can do your exact job.(holy pally)

I would consider a feral druid over ret pally anyday for Naxx shenanigans. (considering the feral druid can tank patchwork and dps more than ret pally already)
Last edited by Imbaslap on Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transition from Holy to Retribution

by moodirun123 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:26 am

I raid as Ret and honestly do more dps than most the classes that scream oh youre not viable youre wasting a spot ... dude if Ret is the play style you like then talk to your guild master and ask him str8 up hey do you mind if we try a run with me as Ret and see how we do and hey if doesn't work maybe can figure it out see what he says ... Rets bring a lot of utility sadly not as much as a druid who is specced 30 feral 20 resto with just a change of gear can ot dps or heal ... I personally still raid with my guild as ret and I raided in vanilla as ret til aq then I tanked ... both are viable and can be done and the person who suggested wearing cloth is a retard please don't listen to that... focus on getting as much strength as you can as much crit ...28% - 36% and your dpswill be higher than majority of ur raiders .. and youre 1 person out of 40 ppl in the raid if the raid cant be done without you ( one person ) then that's sad so yeah theres room for you to ret it up ... its fun but keep in mind you are going to required to cleanse here and and toss an off heal .. smll price to pay to have fun

only video I could find from old guild started getting better gear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v85uo9zM3Bw look hard and you ll see me aka Therth in light forge as ret running around having a good time throwing a cleanse when needed .. I was ret and guess what we owned baron ;)
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