Darkmoon Card: Maelstrom

[JCarrill0]

This is a topic about one particular item. It starts as:

Elementals Deck
This Item Begins a Quest
"Property of the Darkmoon Faire."

and turns into:

Darkmoon Card: Maelstrom
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 60
Equip: Chance to strike your melee target with lightning for 200 to 301 Nature damage.

Is it really best in slot forever for Paladin DPS? Discuss

PS - Duki your up!

[JCarrill0]

Quotes from another thread specifically about this item:

lol @ dukis list
darkmooncard m8, worst item out there for this server

But scale pretty good with spell power which from next patch we gain pretty much of it + flask+elixir .
When you have enough +SP it would be twice higher than anything else.

Yes, it scales well with spell dmg but its proc rate here on Nostalrius is abysmal at best with a 1-2% proc rate only:
http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3760/lZo8iD.jpg

Procrate is about 2% here (until proven otherwise), with a 3.8 AS (MoM)weapon you will get around 15,79 attacks per min (60/3.8). And if you're saying that it procs from Seal of command and judgement (I can't confirm this since I havnt botherd trying) it will add 7,5 additional judgement (60/8) and 6,99 additional SoC per min ([ 7 / (60 / 3.8) ] ≈ 44.3% proc chance)

Adding all together you will get 30,28 opportunities to get a maelstrom proc per minute.

In the end you will have 0,6056 procs per min or 1,2112 procs 2 min.

And with your so called "BIS LIST" you will have 184 spellpower. Adding a supreme power flask and a greater arcane elixir you will then have 369 Spellpower.

The trinket scales with 22.5 % as well (might be abit off since it was a while since I tested it) which means your avg proc will be 333,525 ( (384,025 + 283,025) /2 )

calculating the DPS from the trinket as followed. (0,6056 * 333,525) /60 ≈ 3,37

(Note I do not account spellcrit or NatureResist value of the bosses)

There is no way in hell you can consider a trinket that increases your dps with 3,37 damage compared to other trinkets.

-Rooik

It's not much better with TUF @ 3.8 swing speed and using SoC/JoC:

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1685/QSTfn5.jpg

***subtract 14 white swings from the total as I killed some aft horde in Winterspring afterwards***

This gets us the following chances to proc the trinket:
109 white hits
49 SoC Procs
33 JoC hits
191 Total chances to proc compared to only 10 actual trinket procs

= 5% proc rate and meh at best

I got more Hand of Justice procs than the DMF trinket during this test and so HoJ + Blackhand's Breadth is still the best DPS combo for Ret, regardless of stacking AP/Crit or Spell Damage in your gear setup.

[smilkovpetko]

well , surprising now that our chances have increased to 5% , how about conversation before?
!!!!Pay Attention to Underline Text!!!!

Re: End Game Retribution BiS Forever.
by Theloras » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:51 pm
Yes, it scales well with spell dmg but its proc rate here on Nostalrius is abysmal at best with a 1-2% proc rate only:

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3760/lZo8iD.jpg

by rooik » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:52 pm
you will get 1, maybe 2 procs in a fight. it aint worth it. the procrate is so bad

by smilkovpetko » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:58 pm
Depend on the Playstyle , Spaming JoC on CD,Hammer and SoC increase this pretty much , and it is not true that will proc 1 or 2 but it would proc at least 10-20 times per Boss Fight depend on duration.

p.s from Special Abilities proc rate is higher.

by Theloras » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:00 pm
It's not Duki - trust me.

I'm using Soul Breaker (1.6 swing speed) with Seal of the Crusader (which gets me 1.13 swing speed) and it's a 1-2% proc rate as you can see from the screenshot:

by JCarrill0 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:07 pm
This is why I asked you to reconsider your post for Nost, thanks Theo for the explanation.
I thought Duki already knew

by rooik » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:36 pm
Procrate is about 2% here (until proven otherwise), with a 3.8 AS (MoM)weapon you will get around 15,79 attacks per min (60/3.8). And if you're saying that it procs from Seal of command and judgement (I can't confirm this since I havnt botherd trying) it will add 7,5 additional judgement (60/8) and 6,99 additional SoC per min ([ 7 / (60 / 3.8) ] ≈ 44.3% proc chance)

Theloras » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:15 pm
It's not much better with TUF @ 3.8 swing speed and using SoC/JoC:

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1685/QSTfn5.jpg

***subtract 14 white swings from the total as I killed some aft horde in Winterspring afterwards***

This gets us the following chances to proc the trinket:
109 white hits
49 SoC Procs
33 JoC hits
191 Total chances to proc compared to only 10 actual trinket procs

= 5% proc rate and meh at best

HoJ + Blackhand's Breadth is still the best DPS combo for Ret, regardless of stacking AP/Crit or Spell Damage in your gear setup.

by rooik » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:36 pm
The trinket scales with 22.5 % as well (might be abit off since it was a while since I tested it)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/1685/QSTfn5.jpg
49+33 special abilities hits = 82 hits = 8 procs (9.7%)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/3760/lZo8iD.jpg
109 white swings hits = 2 procs (1.8%)

You say that my theory is bad or opinion is wrong , but here you got compilation with the result that anything i poke is working exactly in the way as i was trying to say and confirmed it.

You have Underlined specifics in case you or someone decide to ignore it.

You wanted theory in practice so badly, here you got it . Now please stop nagging me with your "own believes" about my opinions and facts..

The evidences are out there!

I play since 2005 this Game and i know how my role work 100%.

[Theloras]

The thing is though Duki - Seal of Command is shite here on Nost - due to it not scaling with Sanctity Aura and due to the absolutely retarded Holy Resistance bug in both PvE and PvP.

Seal of the Crusader + Consecration provides wayyyyyyyyyy more DPS than Seal/Judgement of Command - the only time this would be otherwise is if you have 3+ Rets DPSing and each putting up a different rank of Judgement of the Crusader stacking in order to max out +holy dmg.

That's the reality of playing Ret on Nost and I don't see it changing anytime soon - due to the devs/gms locking posts like this:

Paladin bugs & Holy Resistance
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39524

[JCarrill0]

I don't recall saying any of those, I was simply making a discussion about an item.
Not sure why it became personal

[Youfie]

This trinket seemed to have around 1 PPM on retail, even if can't be known for sure, and it has 1 PPM here on Nostalrius, almost for sure (ran a few tests with 2x2k hits and different weapon speeds, the results were quite clear).

Just saying that cause it seems to be the issue being discusses in the wall of texts above, although I'm not certain since it's mostly quotes.

[smilkovpetko]

This trinket seemed to have around 1 PPM on retail, even if can't be known for sure, and it has 1 PPM here on Nostalrius, almost for sure (ran a few tests with 2x2k hits and different weapon speeds, the results were quite clear).

Just saying that cause it seems to be the issue being discusses in the wall of texts above, although I'm not certain since it's mostly quotes.

And what is the Special abilities procrate? this is what we actually arguing mostly.

It does indeed have 1-2% of white hits but "special attacks" are much higher and suppose to be like that, when i requested from theoloras his screenshot have shown that 9.7% (more or less but close to) procrate from special attacks which i understand why and it suppose to be like that . (which i didn't knew it in server status but knew from retail) that from special abilities it does indeed proc higher.

p.s @JC this topic is opened with intention "against" my Itemization theory from previous topic where i have posted my BiSF items list https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 57#p276220 in order to "engage" me and tell me that i am wrong which

Is it really best in slot forever for Paladin DPS? Discuss

PS - Duki your up!

in fact it end up 100% completely correct whatever i have said regarding this Trinket.

You all supported Rooik idea but was not expecting such answer from me regarding this i believe , but well done you have everything to know now right there https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p278638.

The reason i said stop nagging me and accept that we have different playstyle which i have proven even on previous server also as most efficient there but not yet tested here and i have 100% faith in it still which it is same old style since 2005.

[JCarrill0]

I think the reason I made this thread, was to discuss it with the community.
I know how your support the idea so I used a PS to get you to post your findings.
This was NOT a discussion of how you were right/wrong. It was a discussion topic of the community and their opinions as any discussion thread should be

[smilkovpetko]

The thing is though Duki - Seal of Command is shite here on Nost - due to it not scaling with Sanctity Aura and due to the absolutely retarded Holy Resistance bug in both PvE and PvP.

Seal of the Crusader + Consecration provides wayyyyyyyyyy more DPS than Seal/Judgement of Command - the only time this would be otherwise is if you have 3+ Rets DPSing and each putting up a different rank of Judgement of the Crusader stacking in order to max out +holy dmg.

That's the reality of playing Ret on Nost and I don't see it changing anytime soon - due to the devs/gms locking posts like this:

Paladin bugs & Holy Resistance
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39524

i am fully aware of the bugs , but i have done some tests and experiments already about this in nostalrius.

The way i do play still remain and is even more efficient than peenix.

p.s in peenix there was still holy resistance just for info , it was removed on low lvl raids but at high such as bwl it was still there.

The delay of command i do agree that is annoying but will just affect 10% of my vengeance uptime and nothing more or less. so let say will reduce it from 70% down to 60% , thats all .

the other stuffs which i already compare why it benefit more than peenix i already mention in previous topic .

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic. ... 57#p276323

p.s the only Bosses that my Gear will not be valid is only and only Vaelstrasz and Chromaggus . nothing else.