10-19 so abysmal

[stimz]

The only thing competitive PvP wise at max level is full premade vs premade WSG's which from what I can tell on the forums doesn't happen much and when it does many butts are hurt. Right now people have to make the choice of having fun, competitive games, or chasing R14. Guess which one wins out 99% of the time.

Raiding was pretty competitive, but won't be with all boss strats and what not figured out 10 years ago until at least AQ. The real raiding competition comes with Naxx and that will also be when PvP competition dies when only 1 or 2 guilds can gear in T3.

Anywho, done it before and I know exactly how it will go patch by patch. You grind hard for R13-14 then 2.5 gear comes out and makes majority of PvP gear worthless due to that gear covering most specs that current T1-T2 does not while having superior stats to PvP gear, then it becomes raid to PvP for more than just trinkets and weapons. Naxx comes out and if you aren't in a top tier hardcore raiding guild have fun, cause I remember what Naxx geared premades were like.

Quick reminder of what vanilla PvP will become for the top players: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKQNJL5IL2s If you complain that running into the same 2-3 premades sucks now, just wait.

Or, you can stick with twinking where you can reach BiS gear(which for the most part is just a few stats over near BiS gear) cap with a few hundred gold or be competitive with BiS players for like 20-30g and nearly no time invested beyond leveling. Then you just login when you wanna have fun. That said, 10-19 sucks. Try 20-29 or 40-49.

[Baalls]

No, twinks don't really "ruin" the 10-19 bracket. However, they do ruin the bracket for 10-17(20-27 etc). This is my primary grievance with twinks. The gear gap is surmountable as a level 18 or 19 in that you can still manage to contribute to the team.

I will never make a twink because they make it so lower levels in the bracket dont bother queuing often which can make queues longer.

[Arael]

Low level in the brackets almost never queue, even if not twink, ppl do BGs at level x8-x9 during leveling.

[stimz]

Low level in the brackets almost never queue, even if not twink, ppl do BGs at level x8-x9 during leveling.

Seriously, who queues at the bottom of a bracket? You can't even land spells consistently on players 5 levels higher than you, why would you try vs people 7-9 levels higher.

[gzus]

twinks are just autistic so you really shouldn't expect proper behavior from them tbh

[Solmar]

Not all twinks are as u described," looking for an easy win" or "wants to stomp non geared lowbies" myself I want to have a good fight vs other twinks. 1v1s are teh best but getting that tiebreaker match in both teams trying to return is awsome as well! Also, iv seen many a non twink accomplish a ton as in picking up the flag and saving the game to returning the flag when thought impossible.

[indianola]

What competitive? There is absolutely nothing competitive PvP-wise in vanilla.

What a douchebag

It's a level playing field. We are all on the same patch, same server, same game. You saying you can't hang in vanilla? This sounds a lot like a salty dude who likes to make excuses. Just imagine him being pwned in game, starts screaming at his monitor, "BC WILL FIX THIS! IM WAY BETTER THAN YOU GUYS, NOT NOW BUT IN THE NEXT EXPANSION!!!!!!!!". that's how you sound making bitch posts. It's a vanilla server numb nuts,

Alright guys, I'm gonna roll on this vanilla pvp server. But I'm gonna bitch about vanilla pvp. Derp

Vanilla is PvP notoriously RNG/rock, paper, scissors, what he said is perfectly correct.

[Sham]

Vanilla is PvP notoriously RNG/rock, paper, scissors, what he said is perfectly correct.

Not really. In vanilla skilled players of any class could do very well in PvP. The only class duel I can think of where skilled player can loose to average one is warrior against frost mage.

[stimz]

Vanilla is PvP notoriously RNG/rock, paper, scissors, what he said is perfectly correct.

Not really. In vanilla skilled players of any class could do very well in PvP. The only class duel I can think of where skilled player can loose to average one is warrior against frost mage.

Spriest vs non-ud rogue at higher gear levels too.

[diogenes]

Vanilla is PvP notoriously RNG/rock, paper, scissors, what he said is perfectly correct.

I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation, because I assumed they were talking about two COMPLETELY different things (one group of people talking about there being no true mmr ranking system, the other group talking about class balance in vanilla vs other expansions). However, you're clearly trying to oppose the second group on their own grounds, claiming that pvp balance in vanilla is shit.

I completely agree with you, that a warrior will never beat a mage, warlock vs rogue is a notoriously difficult uphill battle for the warlock (and near impossible if the rogue is undead), and warrior/rogue is "RNG" like you say. I could go on and on about the 1v1 matchups, but I think you get the point. However, this remains true in TBC. TBC really didn't change much of the "class balance" that we have in vanilla. Sure some of these "mismatches" did become a little more level, and the ones that weren't mismatches a little less random. But Warriors still couldn't beat a mage who knew what he was doing, and a rogue would still mop the floor with a lock 75% of the time.

The difference was, that TBC focused its pvp balance on 3v3. 1v1 matchups have never been balanced, not in any wow expansion ever. As far as I'm concerned, your statement about "rock paper scissors" is null and void once you draft 10 people for a premade WSG. You can't "rock paper scissors" a team that has a wide variety of classes and are all working together.

Your assumption about class balance in vanilla does not in any way account for premade BGs, so you're just wrong. However, I will 100% agree with anyone who says that TBC and beyond is more "competitive" in the sense that you are (were) much more likely to play against people your skill level and improve simply because of Arena and the mmr that came along with it.