Remove Prem vs Prem Queue.

[Healthycoww]

You want unforgettable games? Why not queue a premade vs premade and you can actually do that now quite easily since you are put in a different queue, all you gotta do is talk with opposing premade to queue vs you.

I really wish I could bud, but all the premades are doing that ranking thing. They don't have time to stop getting honor, and hopping into the premade queue JUST to get bad honor fighting long games against us. Unless you force them to *RANDOMLY* run into eachother they'll never fight. Did you not learn that from the past 3 weeks?

Disable the prem vs prem bias on the queue system or premades will never actually get the chance to fight eachother.

[kuurtzen]

Disable the prem vs prem bias on the queue system or premades will never actually get the chance to fight eachother.

I'm ok with that and so is(I presume) 90% of the playerbase. what now

[Darkwinjax]

You want unforgettable games? Why not queue a premade vs premade and you can actually do that now quite easily since you are put in a different queue, all you gotta do is talk with opposing premade to queue vs you.

I really wish I could bud, but all the premades are doing that ranking thing. They don't have time to stop getting honor, and hopping into the premade queue JUST to get bad honor fighting long games against us. Unless you force them to *RANDOMLY* run into eachother they'll never fight. Did you not learn that from the past 3 weeks?

Disable the prem vs prem bias on the queue system or premades will never actually get the chance to fight eachother.

As if you would want to randomly bump into another premade while queuing as premade,the fact you are all so zelous about having this change reverted just proves otherwise. Why not wait until you are all done ranking and then you can go peeweepee with your favorite friends :^)? You realize doing one premade vs premade game in the premade queue is exactly the same as doing one premade vs premade game in the old normal queue? You are providing terrible arguments while mascarading your true intentions of why you want this change reverted so I'm going to stop replying to you, because frankly right now it's just like watching an hypocrite bite it's own tongue.

[Healthycoww]

As if you would want to randomly bump into another premade while queuing as premade,the fact you are all so zelous about having this change reverted just proves otherwise. Why not wait until you are all done ranking and then you can go peeweepee with your favorite friends :^)? You realize doing one premade vs premade game in the premade queue is exactly the same as doing one premade vs premade game in the old normal queue? You are providing terrible arguments while mascarading your true intentions of why you want this change reverted so I'm going to stop replying to you, because frankly right now it's just like watching an hypocrite bite it's own tongue.

If there was ANY team in the premade vs premade queue at ANY time of day I would queue into them.

Guess what there's not. If you hop in a queue as a full 10 you're waitin an hour or longer to play. Meanwhile time passes and honor is earned by everyone that's not you.

But you wouldn't know this because you don't PvP.

[finalboss117]

I will actually give you a serious reply because you geniunly seem like a nice guy, and I understand where you are coming from / what you are after.

The skill cap in vanilla is so low that there really is no point in classifying yourself as one of the best / worst, the game is taken to ridiculous levels of RNG, I can illustrate this in many ways but I believe that if you are experienced in playing in 1.12 servers you know what I mean, how different is it when a warlock procs 2 shadowtrances in a fight? when you play a warrior and don't get a single crit on a priest? or when a mage crits everyspell on you? If TBC / Wrath had their fair share of RNG (and that's the reason why WoW PvP, along with the existance of PvE will never be balanced), then vanilla takes the crown as the most retarded of them all.

Can you tell the difference between a good player and bad one? Obviously.
Can you tell the difference between a Glad / r1 player to a very good player? Not so likely.

Being the "best" in vanilla isn't possible, because there is no way to tell who is the best on a game that has a skill-cap so low and no objective way to define best (IE arena rating).

So with this being said I'll try and answer your question, why would you want to be recognized as among the "best" on this version of the game?

With this I want to clarify something, vanilla PvP is one thing: FUN. And I believe that you and many rankers might have forgoten that at one point, because I sure did when I was ranking in ED, and keep in mind that I solo queued most of the time to r10, I can't imagine how boring it must get farming pugs all game for days and days.

Should your desire to be "recognized" trumple over the desire for casual PvPers (casual != noob) to have their fair of joy while doing the same grind that you are doing? These changes won't stop you from getting your months of efame before you are forgotten, you can make your own squad of 3-4 friends and still solo queue for your grind, this simply allows other players who want to rank up but can't afford the time to spend on a consistent premade or just casually play some BGs every once in a while without having to feel like it's a rapefest every game.

Hope you now understand why these changes are pretty much the best thing that can happen to vanilla PvP

I see your point, which is the reason i didn't state I wanted strive to be the single "best' i just wanna be recognized as one of the top players... It sounds like from what I am hearing you say, we actually agree on almost all fronts.

I have no problem fighting in pugs all day long.. really.. I don't.. It is quite fun to be honest... But the when the alli are FULL PREMADE EVERY GAME and the horde have zero competition it is really a shame... my efforts along with others are not effective because it hardly increases the chances of a win.

Removing prem vs prem is one option...

OR

Just remove the part of the algorithms that allows for the prems to play against pugs. So that the alliance doesn't get instant queues into bgs with no horde prem competition. They will not get a pop unles a horde prem is playing.. and there will be no prems unless both sides are playing.

If I am understanding your thoughts correctly you should agree with this because what will be the outcome? well most likely 90% pug vs pug games mixed in with rankers... That would probably allow rankers to farm great honor and keep the puggers happy, no?

I am currently rank 11 and I would really hate to stop ranking because many of the Chinese are stealing the top bracket spots by playing 24/7. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Hopefully people cooperate and we have a great community. But that is really my fear with this change.

Also... why balance?

[Darkwinjax]

As if you would want to randomly bump into another premade while queuing as premade,the fact you are all so zelous about having this change reverted just proves otherwise. Why not wait until you are all done ranking and then you can go peeweepee with your favorite friends :^)? You realize doing one premade vs premade game in the premade queue is exactly the same as doing one premade vs premade game in the old normal queue? You are providing terrible arguments while mascarading your true intentions of why you want this change reverted so I'm going to stop replying to you, because frankly right now it's just like watching an hypocrite bite it's own tongue.

If there was ANY team in the premade vs premade queue at ANY time of day I would queue into them.

Guess what there's not. If you hop in a queue as a full 10 you're waitin an hour or longer to play. Meanwhile time passes and honor is earned by everyone that's not you.

You idiot, yes, I'm going to insult you now because we've been going at this for some posts now and you still don't understand such simple thing.

You can go and ask the alliance players if they want to play a premade game, just 1 every 2 hours or so since I guess thats the amount of times you actually faced each other in prem vs prem while the old queue system was active ( I'm not even going to speak about how disgusting your dodgings were when you were farming empty games for 6 weeks for easy rankings ) if that alone doesn't prove that the average ranker will do anything to make it's grind easyer I don't know what will.

I'm tired of your subtle manipulation of basic facts, saying that you would fight premades if it were random (loled, as if you would willingly queue into another premade more than 2 times each hour, maybe not even that much) you realize that a decent prem vs prem WSG can take up to 30 mins - 1 hour, that's alot of time and that's the reason why any brained ranker will avoid other premades, so you can just stop posting right now, because everyone can see through your shit.

You cannot farm pugs anymore. Deal with it or quit.

[Healthycoww]

You can go and ask the alliance players if they want to play a premade game, just 1 every 2 hours.

You know what they'll say? "No."

Why? They're busy keeping their ranks.
I don't get how you fail to understand that high ranks have DECAY that we constantly have to beat.

That fact, and it is a fact, is going to influence the behavior of the players. Why do you think people were farming empty bgs. Cause it was fun? No you had to or you would derank.\

In order for people to play for fun, you'd have to disable decay completely.

[Niko]

hey hey hey

[Younie]

You can go and ask the alliance players if they want to play a premade game, just 1 every 2 hours.

You know what they'll say? "No."

Why? They're busy keeping their ranks.
I don't get how you fail to understand that high ranks have DECAY that we constantly have to beat.

It's a community problem then, not a the q system problem.
If you are "randomly" facing a "premade" that do not wish to face yours, it's not going to be a game any better than a pugvpug game.
And if you can't find 10 allies among the numerous ones that are done ranking and currently ranking, you're probably not trying very hard neither. Especially when you see how many people on those forum claim they don't want to farm pug but find prem v prem being hte awesomest gameplay vanilla has to offer.

[Darkwinjax]

I will actually give you a serious reply because you geniunly seem like a nice guy, and I understand where you are coming from / what you are after.

The skill cap in vanilla is so low that there really is no point in classifying yourself as one of the best / worst, the game is taken to ridiculous levels of RNG, I can illustrate this in many ways but I believe that if you are experienced in playing in 1.12 servers you know what I mean, how different is it when a warlock procs 2 shadowtrances in a fight? when you play a warrior and don't get a single crit on a priest? or when a mage crits everyspell on you? If TBC / Wrath had their fair share of RNG (and that's the reason why WoW PvP, along with the existance of PvE will never be balanced), then vanilla takes the crown as the most retarded of them all.

Can you tell the difference between a good player and bad one? Obviously.
Can you tell the difference between a Glad / r1 player to a very good player? Not so likely.

Being the "best" in vanilla isn't possible, because there is no way to tell who is the best on a game that has a skill-cap so low and no objective way to define best (IE arena rating).

So with this being said I'll try and answer your question, why would you want to be recognized as among the "best" on this version of the game?

With this I want to clarify something, vanilla PvP is one thing: FUN. And I believe that you and many rankers might have forgoten that at one point, because I sure did when I was ranking in ED, and keep in mind that I solo queued most of the time to r10, I can't imagine how boring it must get farming pugs all game for days and days.

Should your desire to be "recognized" trumple over the desire for casual PvPers (casual != noob) to have their fair of joy while doing the same grind that you are doing? These changes won't stop you from getting your months of efame before you are forgotten, you can make your own squad of 3-4 friends and still solo queue for your grind, this simply allows other players who want to rank up but can't afford the time to spend on a consistent premade or just casually play some BGs every once in a while without having to feel like it's a rapefest every game.

Hope you now understand why these changes are pretty much the best thing that can happen to vanilla PvP

I see your point, which is the reason i didn't state I wanted strive to be the single "best' i just wanna be recognized as one of the top players... It sounds like from what I am hearing you say, we actually agree on almost all fronts.

I have no problem fighting in pugs all day long.. really.. I don't.. It is quite fun to be honest... But the when the alli are FULL PREMADE EVERY GAME and the horde have zero competition it is really a shame... my efforts along with others are not effective because it hardly increases the chances of a win.

Removing prem vs prem is one option...

OR

Just remove the part of the algorithms that allows for the prems to play against pugs. So that the alliance doesn't get instant queues into bgs with no horde prem competition. They will not get a pop unles a horde prem is playing.. and there will be no prems unless both sides are playing.

If I am understanding your thoughts correctly you should agree with this because what will be the outcome? well most likely 90% pug vs pug games mixed in with rankers... That would probably allow rankers to farm great honor and keep the puggers happy, no?

I am currently rank 11 and I would really hate to stop ranking because many of the Chinese are stealing the top bracket spots by playing 24/7. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Hopefully people cooperate and we have a great community. But that is really my fear with this change.

Also... why balance?

1st : Any china or 24/7 logger can be reported to GMs and it's up to them to make sure that the current system holds valid on all fronts by actively banning and monitoring these players, you can go 24/7 for 2 days max or maybe abit more if you are on speed, but this is easily checkable to see who is abusing multi loggers and what not.

2nd: Your best argument atm is that alliance can single queue and get in game with premade, I highly doubt that this is possible to happen 100% of the time and at most they will get 5-7 premades in one game, which you can easily beat if you queue with 3 - 4 friends and are better than them.

Regarding point number 2, single queue is easily preventable by simple alterations in the queueing system, just make it so that while you are in a queue for bg the positions of the players get scrambled and tada, it will be random, for example, wait 1-2 min in queue (I believe this would be a reasonable amount of time) Check all of the players that are in the queue, let's say 20 players queued, normaly the single queuers that took the first 10 spots would be put as full premade in WSG, just make it so that the queues get scrambled and randomized, I'm pretty sure this or a method similiar to this one ( I haven't given it much thought ) is easy to implement and would stop your whining.