Constructive thread on how you would fix PvP -ideas

[arOo]

Almost ironic how he proves your point in the next comment.
-No forget what i said it's not funny, it's sad.

There has never been a problem with premades fighting against pug's my dear irrational forum poster.

Logic:
pug's lose against premades - It's unfair! /facepalm
- It's time people get into their head that it isn't unfair - it is nothing but organization.
Aside from the strong setup premades can determine for themselves, this is still a 10v10/15v15 scenario.
We could always group up with 5 people and tear apart most of the Ranking Premades - Not because we are so damn good(well that too). No simply because we had people trying.

Also, people that are trying to argue to get rid of Group-Queue all together, you gotta be shitting me...
Premade vs. Premade is by far the most fun you can have in Vanilla PvP.
That people dodge other Premades is a process of Ranking and they are not doing it, because they enjoy stomping pugs. They do it because Honor grinding is a competition with your own faction and you have to be most efficient.

So please, blame the Blizzlike Honor System and don't blame the players(except maybe for the PvE shytes you won't ever see again in a BG after they are done ranking).

- Last ever post I will make on behalf of this issue, my head starts to hurt when I see people talking like that in earnest.

[Plaguetongue]

Almost ironic how he proves your point in the next comment.
-No forget what i said it's not funny, it's sad.

There has never been a problem with premades fighting against pug's my dear irrational forum poster.

Logic:
pug's lose against premades - It's unfair! /facepalm
- It's time people get into their head that it isn't unfair - it is nothing but organization.
Aside from the strong setup premades can determine for themselves, this is still a 10v10/15v15 scenario.
We could always group up with 5 people and tear apart most of the Ranking Premades - Not because we are so damn good(well that too). No simply because we had people trying.

Also, people that are trying to argue to get rid of Group-Queue all together, you gotta be shitting me...
Premade vs. Premade is by far the most fun you can have in Vanilla PvP.
That people dodge other Premades is a process of Ranking and they are not doing it, because they enjoy stomping pugs. They do it because Honor grinding is a competition with your own faction and you have to be most efficient.

So please, blame the Blizzlike Honor System and don't blame the players(except maybe for the PvE shytes you won't ever see again in a BG after they are done ranking).

- Last ever post I will make on behalf of this issue, my head starts to hurt when I see people talking like that in earnest.

Agree =)

[Ohhgee]

Almost ironic how he proves your point in the next comment.
-No forget what i said it's not funny, it's sad.

There has never been a problem with premades fighting against pug's my dear irrational forum poster.

Logic:
pug's lose against premades - It's unfair! /facepalm
- It's time people get into their head that it isn't unfair - it is nothing but organization.
Aside from the strong setup premades can determine for themselves, this is still a 10v10/15v15 scenario.
We could always group up with 5 people and tear apart most of the Ranking Premades - Not because we are so damn good(well that too). No simply because we had people trying.

Also, people that are trying to argue to get rid of Group-Queue all together, you gotta be shitting me...
Premade vs. Premade is by far the most fun you can have in Vanilla PvP.
That people dodge other Premades is a process of Ranking and they are not doing it, because they enjoy stomping pugs. They do it because Honor grinding is a competition with your own faction and you have to be most efficient.

So please, blame the Blizzlike Honor System and don't blame the players(except maybe for the PvE shytes you won't ever see again in a BG after they are done ranking).

- Last ever post I will make on behalf of this issue, my head starts to hurt when I see people talking like that in earnest.

arondra dropping logic BOMBS like funk master flex

[bouss]

Almost ironic how he proves your point in the next comment.
-No forget what i said it's not funny, it's sad.

There has never been a problem with premades fighting against pug's my dear irrational forum poster.

Logic:
pug's lose against premades - It's unfair! /facepalm
- It's time people get into their head that it isn't unfair - it is nothing but organization.
Aside from the strong setup premades can determine for themselves, this is still a 10v10/15v15 scenario.
We could always group up with 5 people and tear apart most of the Ranking Premades - Not because we are so damn good(well that too). No simply because we had people trying.

Also, people that are trying to argue to get rid of Group-Queue all together, you gotta be shitting me...
Premade vs. Premade is by far the most fun you can have in Vanilla PvP.
That people dodge other Premades is a process of Ranking and they are not doing it, because they enjoy stomping pugs. They do it because Honor grinding is a competition with your own faction and you have to be most efficient.

So please, blame the Blizzlike Honor System and don't blame the players(except maybe for the PvE shytes you won't ever see again in a BG after they are done ranking).

- Last ever post I will make on behalf of this issue, my head starts to hurt when I see people talking like that in earnest.

So pre-mades are fun against pre-mades but dodging pre-mades is what you do to gain more honor. So you dodge other pre-mades 24/7 (apart from 1-2 groups that dodge nothing), fighting poor pugers to gain honor. And you call this loving PvP. I guess on spare time you use your martial arts expertise to kill ants again and again proving how well trained you are. And others find this sane and agree. My mind is blown.
Since you "love" PvP you should then be the first to ask for a fix since this is killing the fun due to unfair competition. But no...

[arOo]

Me? I stopped playing here all together because PvP's a travesty and I now rather spend my time in arenas.

ontopic: I rarely saw Rankers past r11 having fun playing battlegrounds. It's a necessary cancer you have to put yourself through to get the prestige gear. Ranking is pure ambition and shouldn't be mistaken with love for PvP(Hello to all these people farming R14 for PvE BiS).

I know people that never made it past r11 have a hard time understanding this, but I hope you can grasp it sometime.
Weeks of 14h+ of BG farming usually is the remedy to most peoples blockades on the topic.
That's also the reason, why the people whining on these forums shouldn't be taken for ambassadors of the Honor system. They simply lack the experience to have a say in this.
Let me paraphrase every single whine post on the matter:
"I got stomped by a premade, mimi - they all suck, I'm the best, fix it for me so I never have to lose again"
- I never read a single one of those that wasn't completely erratic. But what's worse is that the Nostalrius staff and some people w/o any idea of the Honor system jumped on the train.
Again I'm not saying those people are bad in PvP; those people just don't know what it actually takes to get the higher ranks.

So eventhough your mind is being blown, I hope i was coherent enough for you to get it.

- Last ever post I will make on behalf of this issue, my head starts to hurt when I see people talking like that in earnest.

[Shad0wsong]

I am not yet 60. Been leveling up slowly and doing bgs along the way. Reading this thread is a bit discouraging. Though I have not yet run into this problem here, I do want to comment.

First - someone in this thread said that Blizz never had to deal with this problem. Not true. People have been win trading since very early days. Blizzard dealt with it by banning anyone doing it. Banning cheaters is better than rolling back gear for everyone. Some people might have earned it legitimately. Why should they be punished?

Once you begin to ban win traders, you cut the problem in two ways.
1. You get rid of people who have done/are doing it. This gets them out of all of the queues.
2. A lot of people who currently might be pushed into it because now it's the only way to compete, will stop - because the reward is not worth the risk of the loss.



In addition, I agree that Ana made a number of good suggestions.

I liked:
3) disable the victory condition based on the number of people in the game.
If the numbers are severely unbalanced - no token

4) shorten the time limit for when there isn't enough players OR add a new time limit for when one of the sides has no players at all (2 minutes max)

5) make it so you can multiqueue, BUT as soon as you (or your premade) join a bg, you (or the group) drop all queues.



Lastly - nothing wrong with premades, or queuing as a group. Do not remove group queue. BG's are a team event. Teams grow and improve by working together. Can you imagine going to a basketball or football game where none of the players had ever met each other before; a bunch of random guys thrown together who only knew their team was supposed to get the ball into the hoop and prevent the other team from doing it.

What a mess.

We don't need to get rid of premades - we need more of them. Group up. Build a team. Work together and get good. If there were a lot more premades, there would be a lot less half empty Battlegrounds. More premades would help solve the problem. That is something the player base can do without having to wait for the NOS staff to "fix" everything.


Win trading is the problem; not premades. Ban win traders.

[Minerals]

Logic:
pug's lose against premades - It's unfair! /facepalm
- It's time people get into their head that it isn't unfair

funny how braindead you are. its not unfair you say? ok and why we dont see FC Barcelona vs Amateur Teams. this should be fair by YOUR logic.

LOL

pls kill yourself

[Ana]

For the record, my "suggestions" are all in fact a single 5-step path to victory. They won't work very well if you take 1 or 2 and skip the rest. Heh.

those people just don't know what it actually takes to get the higher ranks.

It takes hours and hours of ridiculous grind, which, in a good system, shouldn't be mandatory. But well... if all players stuck to playing BGs no more than 5 hours a week, it would all be nice and easy. But someone is going to decide they will play 8 hours a week to have an edge in ranking. And others will follow. And then someone else thinks there's no reason he can't play 15 hours a week to again get ahead of the herd. etc etc etc etc

A system that allows escalating like that with zero limitations whatsoever is retarded by definition. So, this general sentiment about reverting the changes back to old aka blizzlike aka whatever? Nah, it's not going to make things good. Better, maybe, but not good. Even if you sprinkle some candy on a pile of shit, it's still nothing more but candy-covered shit.

[Shad0wsong]

Ana, regarding:
"For the record, my "suggestions" are all in fact a single 5-step path to victory. They won't work very well if you take 1 or 2 and skip the rest. Heh."


I left out your first two steps:


"1) keep current idea in place (queuing priority for premades vs premades, pugs vs pugs)
2) make it impossible for puggies to slowly trickle into the prem vs prem games if one side decides to dodge"



Step 2 is probably okay, and I should have included it. But I don't agree with step 1. I think that set up makes it much easier for premades to trade wins. A pug group would be much less likely to leave and thereby concede a victory to the premade. I'm in favor of anything that makes it more difficult for premades to trade wins.


A pug group CAN beat a premade IF everyone just uses good basic skills:
1. Use crowd control.
2. Focus fire.
3. Kill healers and flag carriers first.
4. In AB call out incomings - provide as much info as possible.

I don't care how good your gear is - if you are sheeped it does not make a heck of a lot of difference.

I think people need to spend more time reading the PvP forums for hints on how to improve their play. Going up against a strong team, should be an incentive to figure out what you can do better. Watch what they do. You learn more playing against a strong team than you do playing against a disorganized weak team.

Most of all - don't wait til 60 to PvP. We all need time to practice, and to try out suggestions we've read.



Again - premades are not the problem. Premades are the direction people should all move toward.

Cheating is the problem. Win trading is cheating. Cheaters need to be banned.

[Ana]

I don't agree with step 1. I think that set up makes it much easier for premades to trade wins.

<BIG EDIT>
Yeah it does. A bit. That depends on the ratio between premades who want to rank and those who want to play. If there's enough actual playing premades, then the win traders are fucked. It's not like they can set up a prem vs prem game where they fastcap 5 bases and the other side intentionally loses, if the other side actually plans on stomping our team in question.
The alternative is skipping this step, but then you basically go back to the old system, which is better, but imo not good enough. All these fancy gimmicks put on top (steps 2-5) don't affect much.