A MAJOR Flaw in the PvP Que System

[Weteran]

Dear Nostalrius Devs/Admins. As we all know, the PvP que system has been changed to match premade vs premade. I do want to thank you for this effort, as it shows attempts are being made within the PvP system to prevent manipulation by players. However, this in turn has arose even more manipulation of the system than ever before.

Right now, horde premades are experiencing nearly instant ques, while horde solo quers have nearly 30 minute waits. Not only this, but there are 2 groups of horde premade rankers, maybe 3 (not even sure about the 3rd), who are undoubtedly using a form of win-trading. They receive nearly instant ques, only to have 1 alliance member join - leaving them an empty map to 5 cap before the game closes in 5 minutes. They are able to do 5-6 games like this, in the time that a solo player waits 30 minutes to join one game. I know this because I befriended one of the rankers who told me this. I confronted other players on it, and they say that the alliance are simply que dodging because their group "stomped" them for one or two games. They act like it's their reward that they should be left with an empty map to 5 cap for being so "good". In turn, they are que dodging the alliance sometimes as well, leaving them the empty map. How it is decided who joins the battle and who doesn't is unknown. They are most likely communicating through voice-chat. With only 2-3 premades on each side, it's not hard at all.

Also, I was able to join one of the horde premades through solo que because one of their members did not join, and what I saw was them sitting 4 to 1 with everyone HK farming, no alliance pushing bases. It was not long after some HK farming before alliance let them have the 5th base. It's impossible to say (and the premades know this), but it strongly stunk of win-trading. If they are not communicating, then it is obvious they have a small fight before one team quickly surrenders. It's obvious the people who are manipulating the system, as they are sitting with over 400-500k each, and players who are playing more than them in normal ques are around 200-300k.

This needs to be changed for many reasons:

#1. Cross-realm battlegrounds prevented solo quers from suffering from long ques. Cross realm BGs do not exist here as we know. Premades were rampant in retail, but there were countless players from many realms that kept solo players from suffering 30 minute ques. Premades actually endured the much longer ques, but their fast honor made up for the ques. Now they are receiving both ends of the benefits. The premade vs premade matching is destroying solo players.

#2. Continuing from above, nobody should be forced, yes, FORCED, to make a 15 man group to avoid 30 minute ques. If you've played since 2004, you know that most of the PvP scene is SOLO players. Guildless players, who solo que grinding for hours a day. The PvE noobs organzing are actually bragging that they get to sleep over 8 hours a night.

#3. Let's face it. Some people are better at organizing than others. PvE rewards this kind of playing, however it is obvious that PvP was intended to target a different kind of player. Now, the PvE noobs who rely on each other for everything are abusing the current system in place. Soon it will be known that to PvP on Nostalrius that you will need a raid group, as if we're heading off to PvE raid or something. Embarrassing to anyone who is a hardcore PvPer.

So what's the solution? I believe that raid queing should be taken away. Not only should just 5 man party queing be allowed, but these 5 man groups should be matched with a certain number of players who solo qued.

I know that many of the players in the premades will be here defending their premades. I guarantee most of them would quit tomorrow if they had to do a real grind, and weren't able to manipulate the system like they're currently doing. They like easy mode, and one of them made it obvious to me that he's a PvE nerd today when he said spent 100 gold on FAPs. If you've ever grinded 16 hours a day, or actually have ranked up before by a real grind with no manipulation, you know that PvPers are the brokest people around, because there simply isn't time for anything else. The PvE nerds who's only friends exist in WoW and rely on each other for everything are the ones ranking right now. The system is catering to these organizers. And they are damn good at it, it's to be commended, but PvE is what is supposed to reward this type of behavior. Now they have decided to trash the PvP scene. The current system is rewarding these types of players in PvP GREATLY and then on top of that, punishing the solo player, which is completely not blizzlike.

The premaders response is always "You should make a premade also." Then something about salt - it's the same typical response from these fools. No - How about you be forced to not be allowed to make a premade, and actually be forced to do a real grind without manipulating the PvP system. How about that?

The current PvP situation on Nostalrius is embarrassing. PvP has turned into a game of who can manipulate and work their way around the system the most. I joined a PvP group only to hear loads of speculation about whether smaller groups would help to avoid the stronger premades, players checking certain ranked alliance members to see if they're in a battle or not, etc. All of these tricks and games - and 0 PvP. Do we really want it to become an unspoken rule that to PvP on Nostalrius you need a raid group?

Soon, the average player will no longer be queing for PvP - and all that will be left is these premades que dodging each other, leaving each other empty BGs for a free win. And again, what is most bothering is not that the premades are benefiting, but that on top of this - it is PUNISHING solo players. What's even more embarrassing is that horde players who aren't apart of the win-trading are now making 15 man groups JUST to avoid 30 minute que times and hopefully get some honor from HKs, even if they know they will be 5 capped. This is shameful for the server honestly. I beg you to change something about this.

[Healthycoww]

I kinda stopped playing because of the absolutely atrocious state of the PvP on this server.

When will people learn that first in line is the least exploitable method of battleground queues?

Glad to know that nothing has been changed in the months since my departure.

[Ohhgee]

I've been singing this song for months.

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=23909

Obviously admins either fail to see the negative effects of them tampering with the queue system. Either that or they simply don't care. The ranking scene has been a complete joke since August/September.

Queue change #1: Creation of premade vs premade priority (implemented in early August)
Intended result: Premades fight each other more often
Actual result: Wintrading

Queue change #2: Removal of multi queue (implemented mid October)
Intended result: Make dodging/wintrading not possible
Actual result: Basically killed premading. Majority of players now forced to solo queue. Massive influx of Chinese and AFKers.

CURE THE CANCER. Make queues Blizzlike again

[Weteran]

Wonderful, after win trading their 150k honor today, now they're all off to sleep their 8 hours, plus extra time to do other things. To those who don't pvp, as fiendish as it sounds, 10 hours of PvP shouldn't get rank 14 on a server this populatied as they're doing. And one of them even has the nerve to rub it in before he logs, "how are 30 minute ques treating you". Nostalrius, this is a disgrace...

[Rylox]

Wonderful, after win trading their 150k honor today, now they're all off to sleep their 8 hours, plus extra time to do other things. To those who don't pvp, as fiendish as it sounds, 10 hours of PvP shouldn't get rank 14 on a server this populatied as they're doing. And one of them even has the nerve to rub it in before he logs, "how are 30 minute ques treating you". Nostalrius, this is a disgrace...

Flawed logic. Higher population inherently makes ranking easier as it widens the brackets.

[snawfu]

Well, in the original blizzlike queue system it was still the premades that controlled the highest standings, and ironically, the honor amounts were much higher because there wasn't some artificial timer on when premades can face pugs (premade priority system). Back then solo players had no chance of reaching high standings.

In the current system implemented whenever Ohhgee pointed out it's about staying online the most, if a soloque player gets on some methamphetamine, they can reach high standings.

Is this ok? Of course not, it's retardedly bad but reading your post it sounds like you didn't play PVP in the beginning months of the server where the average soloqueue experience was getting rolled by NOPE/Ridin Dirty/Winter Chill premade.

[Darkwinjax]

welcome to the world of shitters, people rather dodge and get their ranks then keep playing vs the same group to get stomped, this is happening because of the queue system that puts prio on prem vs prem queue, alliance opens games for horde groups which reck them and then they dodge.

I knew the ranking was only gonna get worse after the EU group was done, now it's all american kids and shitters ranking and we all know how 99% of these players like to get their ranks + chinese 24/7 prem.

Funnily enough even though the EU premade was shit this new waves of american poopmades are the only thing the horde groups can consistently farm to the point of them having to dodge and open empty games))

revert the queue system , even more reason to do it if people are opening empty games again, like all have said, original system + no multiqueue is the way to go.

and ban all associated in actively making and benefiting from empty games, it's a clear abuse of the current system and an exploit.

[snawfu]

^ to be fair, dodging has been happening since the beginning as well but it wasnt as exploitative as the current system is.

[Irachkom]

Premade vs Premade is total shit, because of some premades will always win, and some premades will always loose. So this "loosers" will stop premading because they will get more honor soloque, and "good" premades are starting to abuse 15 vs 0 games...

Premave vs Premade can be good only if there is any kind of cap, maximum amount times players can join BG per day.


Blizzlike sytem is ideal, since there is a point of making premades to face pugs, and still solo players will face other solo players MOST time, and rarely premades because of #of rankers.

Even if you completely remove 15men premades they will abuse it by using voice chat... and sync que....


Gief Blizzlike Que!!!

[Rizzonico]

The PvP Que system has been fucked up, dodged and abused since the beginning of the server and it seems like they are not able to fix the problem or maybe they just don't care.