Black Lotus in DM

[Dreez]

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=69&mid=1164531156263294102

If there was a spawn in DM, this guy would have mentioned it. After all, hes beeing very specific about each node.

he didn't even mention the spawns in the DM arena (which there is more than enough proof of)

[InDL]

So 80 BL per day, so that covers ONE GUILDS flasks for a week in naxx. Something tells me there will be more than 7 guilds trying to progress through naxx on nost.

TLDR you are living in autism dream world if you think 80 BL a day is enough for a server with ~8000 people.

You obviously don't understand that people were busy farming bl for half a year, and naxx is at least 1 year away from now. Most of the guilds just used 1 flask each for the first bwl run, and might use like one more if they're speedrunning, so you tell me how many flasks do you think a competitive guild might have?

In short, I fully understand that from a perspective of a pvp player in a 3 man guild, flask prices seem like a big problem, but I guess that's just how vanilla is.

You don't really make much sense. Considering how the real vanilla classic servers had flasks selling for far cheaper due to the 2500~ concurrent logged player cap. I don't understand how you could possibly argue that the current price, and the eventual price, of flasks is ridiculously inflated due to the increased demand and lack of supply.

Yet you've already admitted to be someone who has benefited from it. So of course you would spout this nonsense.

[Soyoen]

Seems to be an awful lot of wishful thinking in this thread. When the guild I was in progressed AQ40 back in retail our guild"bank" spent ~6k gold on (40!) flasks for the entire raid, this was on one of the most populated realms in the EU back then. There's not much to say, stuff becomes expensive when resources are scarse and monopolized. If they increase the spawn rates the same people that have been farming lotuses for the past 9months will just get a couple of more lotuses to play around with, there is no incentive to collectively reduce the price when the market is under control.

[Dreez]

Seems to be an awful lot of wishful thinking in this thread. When the guild I was in progressed AQ40 back in retail our guild"bank" spent ~6k gold on (40!) flasks for the entire raid, this was on one of the most populated realms in the EU back then. There's not much to say, stuff becomes expensive when resources are scarse and monopolized. If they increase the spawn rates the same people that have been farming lotuses for the past 9months will just get a couple of more lotuses to play around with, there is no incentive to collectively reduce the price when the market is under control.

there's no way to control the market if it spawns in an instance

[Slicy]

there's no way to control the market if it spawns in an instance

This market regulates himself with supply & demand. Having slightly more supply won't change shit for a huge majority of the players, because
- The sellers would remain the same : people with enough time to farm black lotus hours on end, be it inside an instance or by camping silithus nodes or by queuing AV all day long.
- The buyers would remain the same : people dedicated enough to farm gold for their raid consumables and ready to pay any lotus below xy gold.

The fact you can have a low chance to get a BL in an instance reset isn't gonna change the market at all. It won't generate enough supply for such demand.
You can imagine prices of BL going downwards a little bit just after it happens. But below xy gold, you can be sure it's getting insta bought anyways.

Blizzlike or not, having possible BL spawns in Dire Maul is not gonna have any meaningful impact for the mass. At best it will artificially slow the bleeding that this server's economy is, just like AV did. The demand will always be higher than the supply. Period.

In the end it's not dealing with the real issue which is the population not being capped like it should have been and the decision to not scale nodes with it for whatever probably good reasons.

[Dreez]

there's no way to control the market if it spawns in an instance

This market regulates himself with supply & demand. Having slightly more supply won't change shit for a huge majority of the players, because
- The sellers would remain the same : people with enough time to farm black lotus hours on end, be it inside an instance or by camping silithus nodes or by queuing AV all day long.

that's simply wrong. currently the market is controlled by those farming black lotus in AV and some random spawns in the world.
If a Black Lotus spawned in an instance the supply would drastically increase as not only those randomly finding one in the open world or those with an epic mount farming AV all day would be able to get them but also random players without any kind of big effort.


a good example of the past is the Major Mana Potion supply. Since hunters can't solo farm DM north anymore the price has quadrupled (x4).

--> spawns in instances that are only limited by the 5instances/ hour limit have a HUGE impact on the economy

[Ana]

The fact you can have a low chance to get a BL in an instance reset isn't gonna change the market at all. It won't generate enough supply for such demand.

You strongly underestimate the power of vurtnes farming DM all day.
Like, seriously. There's hundreds of them. I daresay the supply of BL would double if you added the DM lotus spawn. Uh, not added, brought back, I guess. Cuz it's supposed to be there and got removed for nostlike reasons, apparently.

[Slicy]

I was about to answer with some random "you must be new here" meme but I figured you need to realize that half you fail to understand how things actually work :

- The market is not controlled by "those farming black lotus in AV and some random spawns in the world". You need to reconsider your definition of a market. The prices of Black Lotus aren't controlled by these people. They are purely the results of HIGH DEMAND vs LOW SUPPLY. This is NOT gonna change with slightly more supply.
If you consider the few sellers control this market, I'm sorry for you, but Black Lotus in DM isn't gonna change the prices at all then.
- Black Lotus in DM wouldn't be a guaranteed spawn. The 5 resets limit per hour is the reason why the impact would be minor. The chances you get 1 BL spawn in 5 resets are way too low. Chances are high you get 0 Lotus.

Meanwhile you could be sure to get 1 Lotus by farming gold for 1h30.
> These hypothetical Black Lotus in DM E would get bought by the same people past xy amount of gold. The prices will never go below this amount of gold for this reason. And this is where your "HUGE impact on the economy" is completely wrong.

Corrected your sentence : "If a Black Lotus has a VERY LOW CHANCE TO SPAWN in ONE instance the supply would SLIGHTLY increase"
"but also random players without any kind of big effort." No pain no gain. Randoms aren't supposed to get Black Lotus without any kind of big effort (aka grinding gold or spending time towards something, which makes the difference between what you call "random players" and the others).

Also, you are comparing the guaranteed farming/supply of 2-5 major mana potions each reset (so 10-25 per hour) vs a very low chance to get 1 Black Lotus with 5 resets in 1 hour.
Mana potions are only needed by mana users. Black Lotus / Flasks are needed by every raider at some point.
You get major mana pots mats in AV. Icecap stacks are dirty cheap. If you have problems farming Dreamfoil stacks / farming gold to buy them, this game isn't for you.

[Dreez]

there's literally 0 information on the spawn rate except for a sentence stating "if it spawns", this can be anything between 0.1% and 80%
even at a 1% spawn rate the supply would noticably increase since there's thousands of DM east instances opened every day

[Slicy]

The fact you can have a low chance to get a BL in an instance reset isn't gonna change the market at all. It won't generate enough supply for such demand.

You strongly underestimate the power of vurtnes farming DM all day.
Like, seriously. There's hundreds of them. I daresay the supply of BL would double if you added the DM lotus spawn. Uh, not added, brought back, I guess. Cuz it's supposed to be there and got removed for nostlike reasons, apparently.

Even if it would double the supply, who do you think would buy these Lotus ? The same kind of people. Giving them low chances to get a BL node IF they are/have a herbalist is not gonna change the whole market. It will just be less pain and more gain for those who already didn't have problems farming gold / getting their raid mats.

I wish the bug report gets confirmed and they eventually add a possible spawn in DM E just so you can realize that no matter how it increases supply, it won't match the demand anyways and the market and its actors will be the same.
If you can afford to spend your day resetting DM E for couple Black Lotus, you had the time to farm gold and get more of them in that period of time. And people willing to do that are either gold farmers/sellers (minority) or raiders who need / buy BL already (majority). No point selling them. Supply barely changes. Market barely changes.

The results would be exactly the same as what happened with AV release. Prices drop a bit and then they go back to their default demand vs supply state.