Getting banned for herbing

[Setup]

to prevent further ban waves. be sure to unlearn any farming profession as it may be grounds to get banned for playing the game.

[Kezzik]

To prevent getting banned for exploiting like a moron: Listen to in game Admin messages.

[Imbaslap]

To prevent getting banned for exploiting like a moron: Listen to in game Admin messages.

except the system message only said to stop. no deletion or anything.
it's very hypocritical and inconsistent in policies to go against their own word as admins.

this only confuses players and admins as a whole.
system message should have stated to stop herbing/mining and to delete all items gathered. an admin will review all cases and individuals involved during the dynamic respawn issue. this would have solved about 70% of the current ban appeals that are still undergoing investigation.

you cant say 1 thing then something else after the ban wave happened (where no one could delete the items)
that's just bad management.


future suggestion to admins when major exploitive bugs appear on the server.
1) make a system message with actions that players can do to help the server and admins out in regards to the bug/issue. considering you have 10k+ players on this server, I cannot imagine a GM talking to each of them during a major issue. State what is bugged, the actions the players should do, and to await further instructions on forums/in game message.

2) when making a huge change to the server economy/stability. please use the system login message as an early warning to all the players (not every player frequents the forums/twitter/facebook, some just log in and play) a simple login message would be great like this.

"Welcome to Nostalrius!, we are currently conducting a major change in our herbing/mining dynamic respawn system within the game world. if you notice anything incorrectly working or out of the ordinary, please submit a GM ticket as soon as possible to confirm with our staff."

now everyone that logs into Nost SEES what is coming and to be aware of a big server change being implemented.

3) you have a communication team of only 1 person. your player base is 1/2 English speaking, 1/2 other language. My suggestion would be to recruit members to help translate system messages, server announcements, terms of use, and upcoming patches/changes in the predominant languages available. (Chinese/Spanish/French/Russian). put links to the translated copies in links at the bottom of the page.

like so:

Following links to our terms of use can be found below in the following languages:

[link] Russian Terms of Use
[link] Chinese Terms of Use
[link] French Terms of Use
[link] Spanish Terms of Use

another example would be to have the list of the members and what language they are fluent in.

for example:
Kyrai - Russian interpreter - communication staff of Nostarius.

all Russian speaking players can actually direct a lot of their isues/questions/appeals through this member and have it translated FOR your GMs and Admins. considering the only job for the communication team is COMMUNICATION ITSELF, I would figure this would help the server dramatically.


by stating that this is an English only server is actually quite ignorant in a sense and offputting to your playerbase that is made up by another language. the forum posts can be in English as everything is done in English, but start finding other language speaking members and add them to the communication team to ensure clear, concise communication is reaching ALL of your playerbase.
this is just common international business practice.

[Artie]

@GM's especially Tyrael - please read Imba post above, makes too much sense to be ignored.

[Snautz]

except the system message only said to stop. no deletion or anything.
it's very hypocritical and inconsistent in policies to go against their own word as admins.

They didn't tell anyone to stop. They simply made a statement about the bug at hand and reminded people that bug exploitation is banable, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who read the ToU. How can you twist that into them going against their own words?
I'm firmly convinced that everyone knows how herb/ore nodes are supposed to work, especially the people with 300/300 skill, so with that in mind every single ban was justified.
They still decided to let some people who very clearly changed their mind on the bug exploitation quickly or whatever else motive they might've had, which is just a cool bonus imo and those people can count themselves lucky.

Can't argue with your points about language/communication though. That has unfortunately been a weak area for the nost team for ages

[sinnee]

They did tell people to stop, the whole server received a big RED block of text stating there was an issue, and to continue any actions involving the issue would result in a perm. ban.
Majority of people did in fact stop right there, some deleted items - others opened GM tickets asking what should they do.
Some people got GM response, stating they should delete those items.
Others still had GM tickets open awaiting response when they were banned - they were never told of the message or given opportunity to delete.
This scenario probably covers 50% of the ban reviews, simply they did not have the same fair opportunity to make it right - this simple difference is not worthy of a perm ban on accounts who are either new, or even had 50+ days played.

[Sharax]

They did tell people to stop, the whole server received a big RED block of text stating there was an issue, and to continue any actions involving the issue would result in a perm. ban.
Majority of people did in fact stop right there, some deleted items - others opened GM tickets asking what should they do.
Some people got GM response, stating they should delete those items.
Others still had GM tickets open awaiting response when they were banned - they were never told of the message or given opportunity to delete.
This scenario probably covers 50% of the ban reviews, simply they did not have the same fair opportunity to make it right - this simple difference is not worthy of a perm ban on accounts who are either new, or even had 50+ days played.

I know I wouldn't require a big RED block of text to not exploit something that was clearly bugged.

[Snautz]

They did tell people to stop, the whole server received a big RED block of text stating there was an issue, and to continue any actions involving the issue would result in a perm. ban.
Majority of people did in fact stop right there, some deleted items - others opened GM tickets asking what should they do.
Some people got GM response, stating they should delete those items.
Others still had GM tickets open awaiting response when they were banned - they were never told of the message or given opportunity to delete.
This scenario probably covers 50% of the ban reviews, simply they did not have the same fair opportunity to make it right - this simple difference is not worthy of a perm ban on accounts who are either new, or even had 50+ days played.

They made a statement which basically means "Exploit this and you will get banned"
They didn't say "Stop now and you will not get banned" so they didn't go against their own words by banning people as someone mentioned before.

Regardless of how you wanna justify people's stupidty it still boils down to this, when you exploit shit you run the risk of getting permbanned instantly. You are not entitled to a slap on the wrist first.
It's super easy to feel remorse after you have been caught.

[Ana]

To prevent getting banned for exploiting like a moron: Listen to in game Admin messages.

except the system message only said to stop. no deletion or anything.
it's very hypocritical and inconsistent in policies to go against their own word as admins.

this only confuses players and admins as a whole.
system message should have stated to stop herbing/mining and to delete all items gathered. an admin will review all cases and individuals involved during the dynamic respawn issue. this would have solved about 70% of the current ban appeals that are still undergoing investigation.

you cant say 1 thing then something else after the ban wave happened (where no one could delete the items)
that's just bad management.


future suggestion to admins when major exploitive bugs appear on the server.
1) make a system message with actions that players can do to help the server and admins out in regards to the bug/issue. considering you have 10k+ players on this server, I cannot imagine a GM talking to each of them during a major issue. State what is bugged, the actions the players should do, and to await further instructions on forums/in game message.

2) when making a huge change to the server economy/stability. please use the system login message as an early warning to all the players (not every player frequents the forums/twitter/facebook, some just log in and play) a simple login message would be great like this.

"Welcome to Nostalrius!, we are currently conducting a major change in our herbing/mining dynamic respawn system within the game world. if you notice anything incorrectly working or out of the ordinary, please submit a GM ticket as soon as possible to confirm with our staff."

now everyone that logs into Nost SEES what is coming and to be aware of a big server change being implemented.

3) you have a communication team of only 1 person. your player base is 1/2 English speaking, 1/2 other language. My suggestion would be to recruit members to help translate system messages, server announcements, terms of use, and upcoming patches/changes in the predominant languages available. (Chinese/Spanish/French/Russian). put links to the translated copies in links at the bottom of the page.

like so:

Following links to our terms of use can be found below in the following languages:

[link] Russian Terms of Use
[link] Chinese Terms of Use
[link] French Terms of Use
[link] Spanish Terms of Use

another example would be to have the list of the members and what language they are fluent in.

for example:
Kyrai - Russian interpreter - communication staff of Nostarius.

all Russian speaking players can actually direct a lot of their isues/questions/appeals through this member and have it translated FOR your GMs and Admins. considering the only job for the communication team is COMMUNICATION ITSELF, I would figure this would help the server dramatically.


by stating that this is an English only server is actually quite ignorant in a sense and offputting to your playerbase that is made up by another language. the forum posts can be in English as everything is done in English, but start finding other language speaking members and add them to the communication team to ensure clear, concise communication is reaching ALL of your playerbase.
this is just common international business practice.

It's first post from Imbaslap in a while that isn't full of vitriol so I'm just gonna quote it. Hell, I'll even bolden the important bits All that in hopes that someone up there will read it and get the idea that maybe they should get around to learning the very basics of management.

[Imbaslap]

except the system message only said to stop. no deletion or anything.
it's very hypocritical and inconsistent in policies to go against their own word as admins.

They didn't tell anyone to stop. They simply made a statement about the bug at hand and reminded people that bug exploitation is banable, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who read the ToU. How can you twist that into them going against their own words?
I'm firmly convinced that everyone knows how herb/ore nodes are supposed to work, especially the people with 300/300 skill, so with that in mind every single ban was justified.
They still decided to let some people who very clearly changed their mind on the bug exploitation quickly or whatever else motive they might've had, which is just a cool bonus imo and those people can count themselves lucky.

Can't argue with your points about language/communication though. That has unfortunately been a weak area for the nost team for ages

that is what leads to most failures.. "assuming" people "know" everything about the game. some never played vanilla or even WoW at all here on Nost. you cannot use ignorance to justify poor management. if you never have lead a raid before or anything that requires leadership/management and "assume" people know how to play the game, feel free to enjoy a wipefest during raid time. the realization is, you have to hold people's hands in a way that doesn't involve you doing the job for them. IE, be clear and concise on the instructions you give. be clear and concise on actions that need to be taken. that is the basics in being an effective leader/manager. you cannot assume everyone knows how to do their job or play their class; hell, even manage an accurate mcdonalds order.. like cmon..

the issue is that Nost has to "manage" over 10,000 players.... what tools do you have that will reach those 10,000 players with "clear" and "concise" instructions and information during a crisis. we can always go back to the "gobelin" attacks that happened during the launch of Nostalrius and how everyone's hats and shoes were stolen with silly half French in game system messages. lots of people were freaking out until they received the lost item within the mail.
let that sink in for a bit.