Getting banned for herbing

[Hammersplat]

Regardless of how you wanna justify people's stupidty it still boils down to this, when you exploit shit you run the risk of getting permbanned instantly. You are not entitled to a slap on the wrist first.
It's super easy to feel remorse after you have been caught.

I wasn't online when it happened and because i sometimes read the "banned forum posts" I think i would have known not to pick bugged herbs (and that the herbs were bugged). But many ppl don't go to the forums, don't read english and are a bit noob.

In this case, I can imagine some-one going "oh wow... lots of herbs... woohoo" and then seeing the server message and stopping when they realised they weren't supposed to be picking them. Some of them even took out tickets etc. But just didn't delete.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Ban them for a month or something. It's a terrible punishment for a dumb mistake.

You talk about a slap on the wrist, what do people even get a slap on the wrist for?

[Imbaslap]

to prevent further ban waves. be sure to unlearn any farming profession as it may be grounds to get banned for playing the game.
click the X under skill tree where it shows herbalism, mining, and skinning to further prevent future ban waves conducted by Nostalrius.
player safety and account security is #1!

Why do you still play here? It's obvious you really don't like this server.

if GRIZZLY didn't piss and moan on the forums during launch, everyone would still be hitting the great wall of aqual quintessence for over a month or 2. half the guilds wouldn't have rag loot. some wouldn't even be playing AV right now...

pissing and moaning is a good thing, because the last thing you want is silence... if no one complains, then everything is considered working or fine...
except it's not fine, its not Gucci, no bueno.

PS. thanks GIDF(Grizzly International Defense Force) for breaking down the aqual quintessence wall to allow us plebians into the great halls of ragnaros.

[Archona]

Gonna have to agree that a permaban is pretty stupid.

If the devs fuck up, that's the devs fault, not the players.

[Aslan]

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Ban them for a month or something. It's a terrible punishment for a dumb mistake.

Well that is chosen by Nostalrius themselves, however I have some issues with thise very case myself... The ToU is fine, indeed it is TOO MILD in my opinion. I would welcome stricter punishment and better scrutiny on a couple of aspects. Its the execution trhat fails.

Quoting the https://en.nostalrius.org/terms-of-use in the following:
IV. Last warning
Abuse of in-game bugs
V. Permanent ban
Abuse of major in-game bugs

You imply it yourself, its about a consideration of the specific case, so how on earth can you do something like a "mass ban wave" EVER?

The point is.. If picking the same herb 10 times is a MAJOR bug abuse.. what is picking the herb 250 times then? If doing that on a Peacebloom and its considered major, what happens if you do it on a Black Lotus. Dont tell me that its an abuse of the very same bug, that would just be a very dumb and unsophisticated interpretation of the rule. Its about the ABUSE, not the BUG, was the ACTION of abuse major, not was the BUG major.

I really dont get it why the devs refuse to hand out 'individual' punishments, when that is what the general rule 'treat everyone the same' is all about. Its about taking the specific circumstances into account.

__________


The last thing I would like to adress... No matter how many people you perma ban and therefore "get rid of", you will NOT cleanse your community. Its completely random who gets caught in these bug abuse things, its not like you make the average of your players more friendly, mature or even less abusive. Hence.. whenever possible, dont perma ban.

Regards

[Snautz]

except the system message only said to stop. no deletion or anything.
it's very hypocritical and inconsistent in policies to go against their own word as admins.

They didn't tell anyone to stop. They simply made a statement about the bug at hand and reminded people that bug exploitation is banable, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who read the ToU. How can you twist that into them going against their own words?
I'm firmly convinced that everyone knows how herb/ore nodes are supposed to work, especially the people with 300/300 skill, so with that in mind every single ban was justified.
They still decided to let some people who very clearly changed their mind on the bug exploitation quickly or whatever else motive they might've had, which is just a cool bonus imo and those people can count themselves lucky.

Can't argue with your points about language/communication though. That has unfortunately been a weak area for the nost team for ages

that is what leads to most failures.. "assuming" people "know" everything about the game. some never played vanilla or even WoW at all here on Nost. you cannot use ignorance to justify poor management. if you never have lead a raid before or anything that requires leadership/management and "assume" people know how to play the game, feel free to enjoy a wipefest during raid time. the realization is, you have to hold people's hands in a way that doesn't involve you doing the job for them. IE, be clear and concise on the instructions you give. be clear and concise on actions that need to be taken. that is the basics in being an effective leader/manager. you cannot assume everyone knows how to do their job or play their class; hell, even manage an accurate mcdonalds order.. like cmon..

the issue is that Nost has to "manage" over 10,000 players.... what tools do you have that will reach those 10,000 players with "clear" and "concise" instructions and information during a crisis. we can always go back to the "gobelin" attacks that happened during the launch of Nostalrius and how everyone's hats and shoes were stolen with silly half French in game system messages. lots of people were freaking out until they received the lost item within the mail.
let that sink in for a bit.

In a 40 man raid you have a general idea of who could potentially fuck up where and which people you can trust to do well with pretty much any task. I get your point, but the similarities are slim.
I agree assuming shit isn't the best solution, but with a community of 10k+ you just gotta make some general assumptions. I guess they could cut the lowbies some slack.

You can't call them inconsistent though, pretty much any violation is a permaban and the communication have always sucked big time

The tolerance for shenanigans/ignorance is a matter of opinion, and it should be clear by now the staff don't fuck around, which imo have more benefits than flaws.

As I said before I agree wholeheartedly with your points about communication, hopefully this incident served as an eye opener. It would save them so much time in the long run if stuff like this ever happens again.

[Ana]

The ToU is fine

The ToU is SHIT. S H I T. Just about everything in it allows a fuckton of loose heat-of-the-moment interpretation by the rule enforcer at hand.

[Aslan]

The ToU is fine

The ToU is SHIT. S H I T. Just about everything in it allows a fuckton of loose heat-of-the-moment interpretation by the rule enforcer at hand.

Yeah of course, but do you want a whole codification? They have some rule that allows them to ffa ban out on a whim anyway and thats their right since its their server so specifying things... does that help? The point of my post is to make them aware that they could weigh things up, so why would you take 1 subordonate clause from my text wall and write something out of any context that I put in my actual content .

[PriestInOurTime]

The problem I have with the GM team is that their attitude clearly is that as long as most guilty ppl get banned, it is ok if a few innocents gets permanently banned without chance to appeal.

[Ana]

Yeah of course, but do you want a whole codification? They have some rule that allows them to ffa ban out on a whim anyway and thats their right since its their server so specifying things... does that help?

Yes it does, because you get a shot at having an actual ruleset. As it stands nobody has any clue whatsoever what qualifies as a minor exploit or a major exploit or whatever and GMs just make up their rules clarification on the spot. Ridiculous.

[PriestInOurTime]

The rules made for this situation would be fine if they just added this caveat.

If the amount gained from the bugged nodes is minor and other circumstances aren't aggravating the ban shall be lifted.

Get the exploiters not the players running into the bug, stopping and in some cases even reporting it via tickets. Especially the absolute demand of having deleted everything since that course of action evidently wasn't even intuitive to all of your own staff(!!!)

Deleting the items is evidence of good intention, but not having done so isn't evidence of malicious intent!